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[–] 69 points 6 days ago (8 children)

As funny as it is watching oil die like this (in the flames of war), it's also depressing as fuck. This attack and the several oil tankers sunk in Hormuz are all separately ecological disasters and are going to take a significant period of time cleaning up (if they are even cleaned up).

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  • [–] 17 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    As opposed to the rolling ecological disaster of oil extraction and distribution working normally?

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  • [–] 26 points 6 days ago (5 children)

    It's all an ecological disaster; What I mentioned is rather acute and localized though. I'd prefer the downfall of oil to not obliterate localized ecosystems.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    How To Not Blow Up A Pipeline Because Of The Immediate Resulting Context

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    I’m sorry. Is it really that bad for me to not want areas completely destroyed due to oil spills and/or fires? These occurrences are wildly destructive in the areas that they take place. It takes years to clean it up. Or are you just using me as a punching bag to be funny just because you can?

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    Just processing the entrenched predicament of oil in the modern world.

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  • [–] 62 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Best outcome honestly, the US will be pressured to end the war rather than using Russia as get out of jail free card, and in the meanwhile the US pissed off all it's cracker allies

    Critical support to Ukrainian intransigence

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  • [–] 56 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    Why end the war when they could just start funding an additional militant group within Ukraine to target the attackers of Russian petroleum locations? think-about-it

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  • [–] 32 points 6 days ago
    [–] 10 points 6 days ago

    I don't get it. It's like the US's actions and interference with other countries has resulted in some kind of force blowing back onto them?!

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  • [–] 11 points 6 days ago

    Begun, the oil wars have.

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  • [+] 3 points 6 days ago
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 98 points 1 week ago (18 children)

    Forced to choose between Israel or Ukraine the US will choose Israel.

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  • [–] 34 points 6 days ago (14 children)

    I feel like the point of the Russia Ukraine war for the US was to destabilize Europe.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 days ago (3 children)

    I'd like to think it will actually make a more stable Europe, once enough of them realize the US is not their friend and they need to fast-track decoupling. You see bits and pieces, the biggest of which (to my dumbass spectator's position) looks like that initiative to make a Euro specific payment processing system.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago*

    It’s destabilized Europe on the specific issue of whether to decouple. Finland, for instance, is all-in on US partnership.

    Europe is also basically unified around hating Russians at the moment, so there’s that

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  • [–] 32 points 6 days ago

    Europeans need a hegemon to tell them what to do or they turn into a mess of squabbling landlords. Germans will throw the whole continent under the bus if it means they get to be the biggest carcass in the pile of roadkill

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  • [–] 8 points 6 days ago*

    I'd attribute Europe realizing (if you can call it that) that it can't rely on the US on the US pulling away from Europe not on the Russia Ukraine war. Europe doesn't show initiative here either really.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (7 children)

    Interesting theory, but it requires a lot of puzzle pieces to magically fall in place for Putin to finally invade Ukraine.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 days ago* (6 children)

    It's not 'magic'. It was over three decades of Western intelligence operations in Ukraine that lead to an unrecognized civil war, with the largest and fastest modern military build-up in the 21st century (in Ukraine). The point was to goad Russia into the conflict, and draw Europe away from Russia, which is extremely consistent with U.S. Middle Eastern policy. The chaos is the point. The 'mistake' they made is that their economists are fucking occult priests who don't actually understand how anything works, so they were unable to execute an affective sanctions campaign on Russia, which means the best way to draw Europe away from Russia is to lean more heavily on your allies (since you have a better idea of what they are doing).

    It's the most consistent theory with what actually happened in Europe. The issue with Occam's or Hanlon's Razor for these things is that the way the CIA runs things, it has hundreds, if not thousands of pans in the fire at any given time, many of which are contradictory ends and do not know that the other exists, in Syria, they often funded opposing militia groups, and they then go to play with the hand that was dealt to them. As I said before, if anything the chaos and blowback is the point more than anything. If one operation goes south, there is another one that was positioned in a way to take advantage of that failure.

    That doesn't mean they don't also just fuck everything up repeatedly, but the U.S. tendency is that when they fuck up something with an enemy, they make sure their allies are the ones who primarily have to pay for that mistake.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 days ago

    Hegemony moment. A fascinating historical case study would be the 60’s DRC. The Soviets provided some logistical support to an anti-colonial government there, Cuba^1^ sent some forces to help a rebel group but left disappointed in a lack of political and military discipline, and Nkrumah and Nehru had all efforts funneled into the UN. The typical narrative of a cold war proxy conflict looses coherence. Its reliance on canards about the anti-colonial Congolese government as communist agitators bubbles to the surface, propaganda spread by white internationalist^2^ interests like William F. Buckley’s American Committee for Aid to Katanga Freedom-Fighters.

    Instead, we notice the CIA helping Katanga’s secessionists smuggle in French made fighter jets, used to strafe UN peacekeepers. At the same time official policy is opposing the secession. What gives? In the CIA station chief’s memoirs, a good limited hangout explanation of overall goals is explained. The US wants:

    • Anti-colonial leader Lumumba dead
    • A regime that can supervise the flow of cobalt, copper, uranium, etc north and westwards
    • A bulwark against independence on Africa’s dividing line
    • The subordination of Belgium, France, and Britain’s capital to the US-led world order

    Such demands were won. But it required supporting many sides. Using the UN in controlled bursts of force to prevent the European-South African proxy of Katanga from creating an untenable situation for long term stability. Using the secessionists to kill Lumumba. Using Mobutu to clean up the mess.

    In the end this raises questions about US military interventions in Korea, Vietnam, or for that matter the GWOT, where playing both sides became an essential tactic. Was the point simply to get a pro-US regime in charge, probably impossible? A more interesting explanation would be fracturing countries to boost the western economy and prevent sovereign development.

    1. Interestingly enough the CIA was sending Cuban exile pilots to crush the same rebellion Che was temporarily embedded in.
    2. In the sense of the fascist international. Networks before and after the Second World War demonstrate links from Ukraine to Canada, Germany to America, and Europe to South Africa and regimes like Welensky’s Rhodesia.
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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (4 children)

    There is a lot of truth to what you say about the CIA, but I don't see how the point can be both chaos as well as drawing Europe away from Russia. You can't have it both ways.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 days ago (2 children)

    But that's exactly what happened. German manufacturing was dependent on Russian oil, and that was a central spoke to all of the EU's economy. Within the chaos of the past 4 years, the EU has economically moved away from Russia and towards dependence on US fuel imports.

    US foreign policy since the end of WW2 is "destabilize a region then use the US economy to realign countries to the US's interests." Break something, then get paid to fix it. Just like the mafia.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 days ago (1 child)

    But that would imply a strategy to the chaos rather than chaos being the point.

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago

    Chaos is the strategy in so far as the goal is simply to break as many things as possible with the hope that the thing you want to have happen happens, but still take advantage of the way they have broken. Strategic chaos is different than 'randomness'.

    They wanted to collapse Russia's economy, and the whole strategy involved doing so. Part of doing that required severing Europe from Russia. However, when that happened and Russia's economy did not collapse, they pretty much immediately pivoted to exploiting European weakness.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 days ago*

    You, in fact, can have it both ways. Especially since neither objective explicitly contradicts the other. If you keep thinking in terms of straightline Point A to Point B objectives, you aren't getting into the CIA mindset. These people are social engineers, first and foremost, and engineering is about weighing things in your favor, but being able to problem solve and work through the inevitable complications.

    Chaos is what creates fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Fear, uncertainty and doubt around the idea, for example, that Russia wants to 'invade Europe', an idea that has been in the full-court press on all of European mainstream media (all of which has been affiliated with U.S. intelligence ops since WWII), even though that has never been a part of any known plan or military formation of modern Russia. So you weren't able to punish Russia and collapse it's economy, but the natural gas people still want to make money? Cut the pipeline, and make the Europeans pay for your natural gas. Want to galvanize U.S. manufacturing and machine creation? Place tariffs on turn-key machines from Europe and compound that with the increase in natural gas prices.

    Crisis creates opportunities for the vultures to feast.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 days ago

    They were never equals. The US project in Israel is several decades older than the US project in Ukraine, and the Western European Empire's relationship with Israel is much older than with Ukraine. Ukraine was just a short fling. Israel is for life

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  • [–] 60 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Trump announces he's joining the war against Ukraine.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 week ago

    Don river

    Kino

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  • [–] 45 points 1 week ago

    Will Ukraine's stabbed in the back narrative put any blame on Trump or do they need to keep daddy yankee as their benefactor?

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  • [–] 25 points 1 week ago