l don't undersand why we Iive in a worId where capital I and Iowercase l are allowed to Iook near identical. PeopIe are paid to design and seIect fonts and they have aII agreed on this Iudicrous convention.

Why has this happened? And is there anything I can do about it as an individuaI or as part of a coIIective?

I can't even do thorn-master Sxan's thing and insert a character code because U+026A, ɪ, is too damn small.

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[–] 103 points 2 weeks ago (13 children)

MncqHiUnJzrmVVc.png

And is there anything I can do about it...

You can choose a different font.

As you can see in the included screenshot, piefed includes a choice of fonts including one that includes I with serifs. Certainly many other apps do as well. Or you can force it at the browser level I would think.

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  • [–] [S] 25 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Nice. Ok. I'll look into that for my various apps and what nots. But don't most webpages serve you whatever font they want and it would be a trainwreck to force a font change when the page hasn't been designed for it?

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  • [–] 37 points 2 weeks ago

    Basic website design is supposed to allow the user to set their own fonts and font sizes along with formatting based on screen size and orientation. Yes, a lot of pages are designed terribly and might break, but that is because they made a shitty website and not because you chose to use the internet the way it is supposed to work.

    Changing out for a font that looks very similar to Ariel but with easier to differentiate capital I and lower case l should work fine.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago

    Most websites should at least support specifying a generic "serif" preference and then they pick a specific one, however you should also be able to force a local font via either browser options or extension

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I don't want I with serifs. I want I with crossbars, and optionally serifs on those crossbars.

    Monaco for the win.

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    [–] 53 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

    So that we can be like

    ✋ Weird AI music
    👉 Weird Al music 🪗

    Jokes aside, you're right. Comics commonly use all-caps fonts that do make that difference. edit: disregard that, I'm a confused person.

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  • [–] 27 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    No one’s gotten into the actual “why” that I’ve seen. This goes back to the early days of the internet, or even computers, really. In the ’80s and ’90s computer screens were much lower resolution than today. The finer details of traditional typefaces were often lost. There was a big push to simplify and optimize for the screen. This also impacted the early days of the web. I remember the advice for amateurs was to design your pages for small resolutions screens, windows that were only 800x600 or even 640x480, which would work on a standard definition TV.

    I remember the defaults in web browsers in the late ’90s were often badly spaced Times New Roman. People would try to code better fonts when they could define them, but they were still largely in the mindset of using fonts optimized for low-resolution screens. Worse, in the early days there were no web fonts that could be imbedded in web pages, so you’d have to try to pick a font likely to be on your readers’ computers, which usually weren’t great.

    Nowadays basically everyone’s devices have high-resolution screens, and we have embedded fonts, so we don’t have to live our lives that way. Still, that decades-old advice echoes through in modern designs. And there are a lot of bad free fonts out there, with people unwilling to pay for a font or put in the effort to find a good free one.

    As for what you can do? You can’t force everyone to change, but you can be the change you want to see. Encourage people to learn about good typography, which is not just fonts! Make smarter choices in the written work you produce yourself to show others the way. And to get by for now, change the default fonts the devices you use if possible, or individual apps or web browsers. You can even install browser extensions like Stylus to replace a page’s style sheet with a different, better one.

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    [–] 27 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    I always wondered how we should distinguish between hating AI and hating Al because Al sucks.

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    [–] 23 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

    I set Atkinson Hyperlegible as my system font, to solve this and other issues.

    https://www.brailleinstitute.org/freefont/

    Here's how your text renders for me in LibreWolf

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I'll keep it in mind. Looks like my Samsung tablet locks me to download fonts from their store and they're not free. Fucking Samsung. And I can't jailbreak it, either, I don't think.

    There's exactly 4 default fonts available and the sample font text is "This font will look like this" so I don't know if there is a properly shapped I or not.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Hard agree. Some sans-serif fonts add a slight curve to the lowercase L, which seems like a no-brainer. But that's just me.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Be glad you weren't born a few hundred years ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

    ᎳᎻᎪᎢ ᎢᎻᎬ ᎻᎬᏞᏞ? Ꮯꮋꭼꭱoꮶꭼꭼ ꮮꭺꮯꮶꮪ "ɪ" ꭲoo?!

    Ꮲꭼꭱꮋꭺꮲꮪ ꭲꮋɪꮪ ꮃoꭱꮶꮪ: 𐊦𐙫𐠳ⵊ

    ⵊ'm not sure...

    𝐈 𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐚𝐥𝐬𝐨 𝐭𝐲𝐩𝐞 𝐥𝐢𝐤𝐞 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬,or in FULL WIDTH!

    AƖternativeƖy, Ɩet's differentiate the "Ɩ"s

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)
  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

    Given the confused nature of your post, best look up Unicode, serif and sans-serif before reading on...

    First line is mostly Cherokee script, whose alphabet goes ᎠᎡᎢᎣᎤᎥᎦᎧᎨᎱᎪᎫᎬᎭᎮᎯ... Many letters resemble English serif ones: ᎪᏴᏟᎠᎬᎰᏀᎻᎥᎫᏦᏞᎷᎨᎾᏢᏩᎡᏚᎢᏌᏙᎳᏯᎩᏃ. With some clever synonym selection (the fuck the hell) and a replacement for the compromised ones like O or (unfortunately also) I, one can use it as a serif typeface wiith small caps.

    The only uppercase, explicitly serif I in Unicode are "special fonts" (Latin, sometimes Greek letter sets) accessible via an online converter or Android app. Some are meant for formulas where serif is the norm, therefore there's

    • 𝖬𝖺𝗍𝗁 𝗌𝖺𝗇𝗌
      • may look like Helvetica or indistinguishable from the surrounding sans(-serif) font
    • 𝗠𝗮𝘁𝗵 𝘀𝗮𝗻𝘀 𝗯𝗼𝗹𝗱
    • 𝘔𝘢𝘵𝘩 𝘴𝘢𝘯𝘴 𝘪𝘵𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘤
    • 𝙈𝙖𝙩𝙝 𝙨𝙖𝙣𝙨 𝙗𝙤𝙡𝙙 𝙞𝙩𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙘
    • 𝐌𝐚𝐭𝐡 𝐛𝐨𝐥𝐝 𝐬𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐟
      • closest to forced serif typeface: as mentioned above, no "Math serif" exists
    • 𝑀𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑖𝑡𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑐 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑓
      • the "h" came first (Planck constant, always italics) and looks different in some fonts
    • 𝑴𝒂𝒕𝒉 𝒃𝒐𝒍𝒅 𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒄 𝒔𝒆𝒓𝒊𝒇
    • ℳ𝒶𝓉𝒽 𝓈𝒸𝓇𝒾𝓅𝓉
    • 𝓜𝓪𝓽𝓱 𝓼𝓬𝓻𝓲𝓹𝓽 𝓫𝓸𝓵𝓭
    • 𝔐𝔞𝔱𝔥 𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔨𝔱𝔲𝔯
    • 𝕸𝖆𝖙𝖍 𝕱𝖗𝖆𝖐𝖙𝖚𝖗 𝕭𝖔𝖑𝖉
    • 𝙼𝚊𝚝𝚑 𝚖𝚘𝚗𝚘𝚜𝚙𝚊𝚌𝚎
    • 𝕄𝕒𝕥𝕙 𝕕𝕠𝕦𝕓𝕝𝕖-𝕤𝕥𝕣𝕠𝕜𝕖
      • completing the alphabet of letters denoting number sets like ℕ, ℤ, ℚ, ℝ, ℂ...

    Then, there's

    • Fullwidth
      • width of CJK characters, uniquely includes some punctuation
    • Ⓒⓘⓡⓒⓛⓔⓓ
    • 🅝🅔🅖🅐🅣🅘🅥🅔 🅒🅘🅡🅒🅛🅔🅓
    • 🅂🅀🅄🄰🅁🄴🄳
    • 🅽🅴🅶🅰🆃🅸🆅🅴 🆂🆀🆄🅰🆁🅴🅳
      • A, B and O (blood types) may be red (emoji presentation)
    • 🇷​🇪​🇬​🇮​🇴​🇳​🇦​🇱​ 🇮​🇳​🇩​🇮​🇨​🇦​🇹​🇴​🇷​🇸​
      • "flag parts", vary wildly by platform, usually blue

    And ᴘsᴇᴜᴅᴏᴀʟᴘʜᴀʙᴇᴛs ʟɪᴋᴇ sᴍᴀʟʟ ᴄᴀᴘs ʜᴇʀᴇ, made by repurposing other characters. Often incomplete, like my Cherokee attempt at serif. Explained on the QAZ website linked above.

    Also, I used

    • U+2D4A ⵊ TIFINAGH LETTER YAZH
    • U+10833 𐠳 CYPRIOT SYLLABLE WE
    • U+1066B 𐙫 LINEAR A SIGN A319
    • U+102A6 𐊦 CARIAN LETTER LD
    • U+0196 Ɩ LATIN CAPITAL LETTER IOTA
      • unlike the above 4 Is, almost guaranteed to be supported by the default font on any reasonably modern platform

    I'm looking forward to the year 𑃦𑃰𑃟𑃰/𞄡𞅀𞄬𞅀/𞄕𞅀𞄧𞅀, the next one whose number can be approximated in a whimsical way by characters in the Sora Sompeng and Nyiakeng Puachue Hmong scripts, respectively. The number of devices supporting them will have grown by then, too.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    As others have said, sans-serif fonts tend to have this ambiguity, whereas serif fonts don't. I agree it seems like rather a silly design choice, but switching fonts solves the issue. A lot of fonts also make 0 and O hard to tell apart.

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    [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Iller is Swedish for ferret.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I think serif fonts have been found to be harder to read.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    My personal feeling is that sans serif is better for screens, serif is better for print. I think I read something backing that up once but can't be arsed to find it now.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    For lower resolution screens, serifs would be harder to read and would end up much noisier. Serifs on print are thought to help guide the eye along the line of words to make easier reading. I imagine the reality is complex with a number of variables impacting the outcome, and there is no single answer (or maybe even a logical answer at all).

    Who knew people adding little lines to their words nearly 3,000 years ago would have such an impact.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago

    I remember when typewriters often didn't have a 1 key. You just used l (lowercase L) instead.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    For the record, less philosophical problems are caused by picking a sans-serif font with a bend on the lowercase L, than that shape for I, where everyone thinks it's a serif, because it sometimes is

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    It also creates fewer philosophical problems if you distinguish between countable and uncountable adjectives. Though, I suppose that's a less philosophical point than you made.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Is that Roman numerals for 1?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago
    [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Who specifically would you say banned it from the internet?

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