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Managers are mini-monarchs (thelemmy.club)
submitted 3 days ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/75526476

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[–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

Nah, they can't.

They can't even fire you without good reason. Let alone pay you less.

They signed the contract as well as you.

And if they try, you can see them in court.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    Only if you're working on an actual contract of employment in a reasonably civilized country.

    Now guess why the number of contracts of employment signed is dropping every year, while the number of other contracts is increasing.

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    • [–] 23 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    I was about to comment "all of those are illegal and you will win in court", but then I remember the US exists.

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    • [–] 15 points 3 days ago (31 children)

    Do people legitimately not understand that going after middle managers while billionaires exist is fucking stupid?

    And that the billionaire class would love that to be the diving line because that greatly increases the amount of people on their side.

    There's not many billionaires, start at the top and work down.

    Starting at the bottom and working up is so stupid of an idea I struggle to give people benefit of the doubt on why they'd think this was a good idea or try to promote it.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Let’s say you made $50k/year. It would take you 20,000 years to make a billion.

    Let’s say you make $1m/year. It would take you 1,000 years to make a billion.

    A billion is a dumb, immoral amount, and we have humans with hundreds of them, in theory. If you make a billion dollars, whatever earnings after should be taxed at 100%. It’s not “socialist” to make this claim. Rather, it’s inhuman to argue the opposite.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Id cap it at $10 million. I legitimately cant find a non-philanthropic use for $10 million.

    Some quick napkin math says i can spend about $1.7 million before running out of ideas to spend money on. Thats a 4b/2ba house, replacement car, backup car, house mods, gifts for family/friends, and a giant fuck you overkill server rack build for whatever tech projects i want.

    Put the rest in a garbage, basic ass savings fund and im already making more passively than i do manually now. I could blow $2k a day on literally anything and still make money.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    I mean I can think of a few nonphilanthropic uses for the money if I was given 10 million, but I could live very comfortably off the interest from 2 million for the rest of my life. If I were somehow given a windfall of 10 million, I can think of a lot of philanthropic things that would also be fun ways to blow through 8 million dollars.

    Like buying the schools in town better musical instruments. 8 million could go a short ways.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago

    Just building a nice community center costs millions, upkeep exists too. Generally such kind of projects are very expensive. We have lots of parks and buildings from, say, 200 years ago because off rich ass people. Very unlike people like Musk or Zuckerberg who leave nothing behind. We can easily argue that Gates did a lot of good things with his money, again, very unlike the those 2 people.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    ¿Por qué no los dos?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    I mean, go after the useless positions and specific assholes. Not every business has an org chart with 37 layers and transparencies with lines showing who's working on which projects and transparencies with lines showing interoffice "romance" shipping/betting pool positions. Every office should have an org chart with a transparency with lines showing interoffice "romance" shipping/betting pool positions, otherwise the office is too small or too boring.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago (23 children)

    Then why are “middle managers” vanguarding “billionaires”?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    This. The owning class doesn't have control without class traitors who act on their behalf in exchange for a paycheck.

    I hate the state of political discourse that people are focusing on "billionaires" and not the system that gives those people power.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago* (21 children)

    Why are kangaroos flying attack helicopters on Alderaan?

    Quick edit:

    Even if what you said wasn't as ridiculous as what I said, so fucking what?

    Start with the billionaires and work down.

    If you start at the bottom and work up to them, it won't work.

    It just fucking won't.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (20 children)

    Yes, why aren't “middle managers” “starting with the billionaires and work down”?

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    You don't think there are communists and anarchists in middle management? Don't be daft

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (10 children)

    precisely why they are class traitors.
    I want givesomefucks to see it, say it, and claim them.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    Yeah. I mean. That's just not what a class traitor is. Management serves a function that would exist whether or not there was a bourgeoisie. Workers are capable of choosing when they need a management function (coordination, longer term planning, etc) to exist within their cooperative structures and the people who energize that management function are doing actual work that has value.

    Yes, the bourgeoisie convinced many managers to become class traitors for a slice of the pie, but it's not inherent to the role like it is for cops or imperial soldiers.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    You're confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs. The meme specifies middle management, not coordinators, longer term planners, etc.. Not all work requires management, and not certainly bourgeoisie protectors.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (5 children)

    Middle management is explicitly not the task masters that supervise workers and police their behavior and explicitly not the c-suite of do-nothing bourgeoisie soothsayers. It's quite explicitly the group of people that analyze the organization, improve safety and training, handle worker complaints, plan things, evaluate decisions that impact the collective, etc.

    Middle management absolutely includes coordinator functions, planning functions, etc.

    I'm not confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs, I am saying that the work that middle.managemrnt does in bourgeois corporations includes much of the same work that would be needed in a large-scale workers cooperative.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

    I’m not confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs, I am saying that the work that middle.managemrnt does in bourgeois corporations includes much of the same work that would be needed in a large-scale workers cooperative.

    If this was true, the bourgeoisie would have ceased from existing, as “large-scale organizers” would have already toppled oppressive c-suites and private firms. It is precisely the fact bourgeoisie authorized management the powers to impose sanctions, demotions, pay cuts, worsen hours, worsen conditions, and harass, why the bourgeoisie hold any power. They are the supervisors, the internal police, the “soothsayers.”

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (3 children)

    No, that doesn't make any sense. There's no way that a procurement manager or a sales VP would have sufficient power or safety to topple the bourgeoisie. That's a ridiculous sentiment. As we all know, the workers could just topple the bourgeoisie too and they haven't, does that make them lapdogs and class traitors?

    Middle management are not the supervisors, by definition. Supervisors of front line staff are excluded from the definition of middle management. Without supervising workers, middle management cannot be "the police" because they are not interacting with front line staff directly and cannot monitor them. Middle management primarily works with abstract collections of information, generally responding to price signals, and provide the information management tasks required for organizations to make decisions.

    And they are not bourgeois soothsayers because middle management doesn't talk to investors, bankers, creditors, and politicians. That's upper management and explicitly excluded from middle management.

    So no, middle management are not police and are not soothsayers. They are well paid members of the working class who are given a larger cut of the surplus in exchange for operating the bureaucracy of capitalism instead of the machine rooms of capitalism. They can be as much class traitors as individual laborers can be class traitors. But the role/work in and of itself isn't inherently class betrayal.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (2 children)

    Apparently both literature, the meme, and reality conflict with your definition of the police of the bourgeoisie. Until the bourgeois police empower the proletariat, we have nothing further engage in.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (1 child)

    Ah yes, anarchist literature. I had a feeling someone like Malatesta would make an appearance in your argument sooner or later

    Have fun with your moral crusade wherein you are the template for the hero and everyone else is your enemy. I am sure that will build class consciousness, revolutionary potential, and sustainable transformation.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (1 child)

    I hate to say this, but I think youre completely full of your own shit.

    Managers aren't like cops. It's not some moral quoundry to take a managerial position. Very often, the position is given to someone who's very competent at their jobs and has the respect of their coworkers.

    Of course, there are evil and shit managers too. And there are evil and shit working class non managers. Whatever your personal grudge is should remain just that. Keep your personal enemies.

    Our public enemy is the billionaire class. If youre telling me that the guy making 55k a year and managers a team of 8 is on par with the billionaire class, you've lost the story completely

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    Did we read the same meme, or are you this apologetic to the bourgeoisie lapdogs?
    Managers are the exact reason bourgeoisie have remained bourgeois for millennia: the bourgeoisie have convinced their brownshirts loyalty for a bigger cut of the pies they larceny. They both need to go, because they are both the oppression.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (6 children)

    Their employers? What are they supposed to "start"? Every US state except Montana is completely at-will employment, you can be fired at any time for no reason. You think a floor manager at Amazon has any particular leverage over Jeff Bezos? A middle manager has no greater advantage against the billionaires than anyone else.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (5 children)

    Yeah, why haven't they all quit enmass?
    What's holding them up from starting whatever givesomefucks meant?
    Spill it out, why aren't “middle managers” starting at the “billionaires.”

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  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Same reason as you?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (3 children)

    I am a billionaire‽

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    • [–] 7 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    They can also die from drug overdoses and freak accidents

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    • [–] 5 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    my greatest joy in middle management was when people didn't even realize I was their boss.

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    • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    Corporations and top-down management are the true Petit Bourgeoisie. We need worker coöps and worker democracy.

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    [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Like RTO....

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