Idoeological concrete in Europe is the hardest material known to mankind.

I think it's pessimistic to take the view that it's impossible, but it's hard.

In my personal experience in the UK, media has successfully drilled into peoples' heads that Russia wants to invade all of Europe and eat our babies, and that Ukraine, more than anything, is a useful bulwark.

This explains why libs don't care about the morality. They don't care about Ukrainians being thrown in the blender. Or about Nazis in Ukraine. Or 8 years of mass civilian murder in the DPR and LPR. Or the preceding years of legal Russophobic oppression. They don't care about NATO being evil or how deliberately the west provoked this war. They only care that "thing that scares me" (scary foreign russia) is being fought and theoretically weakened.

To successfully change someone's mind, I think the first and real challenge has to be to stop viewing Russia as some sort of imminent, existential threat, instead of just another shitty country. Only after that realisation is the Ukraine war is free to be viewed in a much more fact-based way.

But to be honest.. I've never reached that step with anyone I've talked to. Overcoming the fear of the scary foreigner is the challenge of this age, it's an unfalsifiable fear that can never be sated - Anything peaceful is viewed as duplicity, and any frustration is seen as hostility.

To fight fire with fire, I'm tempted by the other comments here about how Ukraine effectively is due to become the new fascist and terrorist to Europe. Countering racist fear with somewhat more justified fear? I guess that sort of works?

You can't, we lost the narrative battle because we were ill-prepared and took the stance that Russia was not going to invade. We also mostly ignored Ukraine for years and years so there was no historical record of the left talking about Ukraine's descent into fascism.

The only thing we can do now is prepare for the next thing, which is that when this war is over the Ukrainian fascists will turn on Europe. Weapons from the Ukraine war will pour into fascist hands across Europe. Terror attacks will increase. Ukrainian fascism will lead European fascism into the next stage.

We can establish a historical record of the left saying this is going to happen. We can talk about it and predict it accurately. Then when it does happen we are more likely to be listened to about current events.

We won the narrative battle on Palestine because of the historical record. We lost the narrative battle on Ukraine because of the lack of one. The left was disinterested in Ukraine, Crimea and Donbas, myself included until shit started to hit the fan.

You cannot indefinitely force people to be part of a nation when they don't want to be, and the violence will always continue in cycles until freedom is finally attained. In order for people in an occupied territory to truly want to integrate with their brutal occupiers, they have to be able to offer them a far far better life than they would have had otherwise. Of course, a nation that has never managed to achieve true democracy since the fall of the soviet union, and is undergoing total economic collapse will never be able to offer that better life - so war and resistance against the occupation will continue on and on indefinitely, until the occupation stops. When you're fighting against people who are trying to occupy your land and subject you to forced ethnic assimilation, even things that are otherwise morally grey become justifiable when it helps ensure the kind of ultimate freedom that will end a prolonged cycle of hegemonic violence. If those occupied people didn't want to be part of Ukraine, why spend almost a decade forcing them to be Ukrainian at gunpoint? Fuck Kyiv and the full-scale civil war waged against people it claimed dominion over, and bless Russia, for all its many, many, many flaws, for its intervention against such immoral violence. Typically, liberals respond to liberal arguments and they can swallow bait hook, line, and sinker.

Outside of the moral arguments, people respond to fear that the UK press stokes. Sir Arthur Travers Harris, the commander of the RAF Bomber Command in WW2 is famously quoted as saying, "The Nazi's entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw, and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they're going to reap the whirlwind." Missiles made in Britain, and aimed by British command centers are killing Russians right now. They could bomb the fuck out of the UK right now and they'd simply be getting even. Maybe bombing them isn't the right course of action if we don't want them to bomb us?

Tell that Ukraine is going to be the place that the US uses to opress the rest of Europe when we get it. Tell them how we are going to hand every nazi a sunflower and a gun and tell them to take away every bit of health care and vacation and they have. Then when they say anything just laught at how you personally as an American will enjoy colonizing their land. Your goal is to make them hate you so much the thought of supporting a US proxy is ash in their mouths. Talk about how we are going to sell Big Ben to clear channel and put up AI generated pepsi commercials on it. Stone Henge will have UFC fight in it. We will put bored apes in that museum in France. We will give all the Egyptian stuff to Isreal so we can display CIA funded American art.

You might be interested in the work of Marta Havryshko. I've found that there are anti-war voices, but online it's truly futile, forget about it and save your health! You get giga shadow banned and 100+ articles are written to appeal to libs against you. Support the scholars/researches who stand for justice. Truth is going to prevail.

By the way and I'll just let it sit here: Saudi Arabia has a massive military budget. Make it of what you will.

The energy crisis will do most of the work. People freezing to death in their homes this winter aren't going to give a shit about supporting Ukraine, they're going to be angry that Ukrainian fascists blew up their gas pipeline and angry at their own governments for covering it up. Our job will be to make sure they know where to place their blame, but it won't stick until they start to feel the pain.

I wish I knew, but I have noticed that as capitalists are going fully mask off with data centers and everything really, the average lib has become more and more disillusioned by the propaganda blizz.

There are some, not many, critical opinions on comment sections even though those are heavily moderated. A few years ago there were none. People also no longer bother to talk about it much and if anything there is apathy around it all. The cognitive dissonance is still ignored, but now you can at least point out stuff like how weird it is that we are not allowed to see the webpages of an entire country like we are all too dumb to form opinions yet we are supposedly so well informed.

My local national news works so hard to keep the bs going, they have even started to post articles about evil soviet union from decades ago so nobody forgets who the enemy is. This seems a little desperate and imo says something about the way the bougies at least fear their bamboozlement is failing.

Material conditions will continue to deteriorate. People are clinging to a narrative that was never anything but lies and that is hard to break away from, but reality will still do that eventually.

Hold on, let me repurpose this Roma hating thinking cap I got from Europe…

Ok, it’s on.

You simply can’t. Europeans are just like that, scarring in their amygdala's makes bigotry against Russians impossible to wipe away. Their fear of ‘Judeo-Bolshevism’ has caused epigenetic changes to their skull shapes that make peaceful coeexistence with, well, anyone, an impossibility.

Our effective methods are organized. This is a conversation that is best to have within an organization when building an education and agitprop program. Not that it isn't good to discuss, just that if the goal is to dissuade from knee-jerk support for everlasting war in Ukraine, you'd want it to be a part of a strategic plan. For example, you'd want to capitalize on situations where those who are pushing for neoliberalism are very unpopular to instead agitate for peace and taking care of the people, and that agitation would not just be about being correct or changing public opinion but about growing your organizations.

Keep exposing America's Political-military industrial complex / Wall Street having their tentacles in their elections and meddling in their affairs. How they see an increase in military spending coincide with cuts to social services. Also Pissreal. Much of the diapora of Ukkkraine are gusano fascists. Got blood and soil flags here next to .

by turning the program off