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[–] 41 points 3 days ago (13 children)

Anyone else feel that a decade from now, as most of the infrastructure in the US collapses into disrepair and we continue to drive cars with no fuel economy regulation that require a personal payday loan to fuel, that the entire rest of the globe will have likely embraced full EV support and climate policies to survive the coming climate apocalypse and the US will just slide into some post Soviet-esque Balkan like existence? Just AI psychosis in what remains of our boomer population with everyone else either labor slaves or some form of new age nomad to survive ICE/Pinkertons 2.0.

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  • [–] 40 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    As a victim of the US made shock therapy i can't just not feel schadenfreude over US shocktherapying itself.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago

    Honestly I hope the rest of the world heavily documents and makes eternal jokes of the garbage entity the US has been and will continue to further deprave itself as in it's inevitable decline.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 days ago* (8 children)

    we continue to drive cars with no fuel economy regulation that require a personal payday loan to fuel

    I was looking at cars, part of what shocks me, is how bad current offerings are. 20 years ago, teenage alcoholicorn bought a used "premium budget" car for 4000 USD, came with the same 4L V8 they stuck in the luxury model, just without a turbo and a more sedate ecu map.

    Today everything is either way more expensive or has a little 1.2L that gets squeezed for 200+ Hp, and somehow only gets like 6 better mpg.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 days ago (7 children)

    The used car market is so fucked. They’ve been pumping out subprime loans for so long that even clunkers are unaffordable. It’s unbelievable

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  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    there was a prediction of a used car market "squeeze" over a decade ago. new cars are a shit deal and basically always have been, so the only people buying brand new cars are people who make shit financial decisions or are so loaded they don't have to care about depreciation. the used car market is a gradient ranging from people buying 3-5 year old cars after the big initial drop, when the value has stabilized and the car is still useful... to the people out there buying the ultra low price, salvage titles, clunkers, etc, and getting whatever use they can until it shits the bed. (waves at myself).

    the knowledge that EVs were eventually coming started a squeeze, where more people simply held onto the car they had, waiting for the promise of a new technology to deliver so they could adopt it next time they bought a car. nobody wants to be the last asshole to buy a combustion engine because that will be a truly shit deal, and the pool of people concerned about that only grows over time.

    so rather than trading up, more people started hanging on to their slightly older car, and the people who would have bought that hung onto theirs, and so on down the chain. but some cars do die, and those who had no choice but to buy up something to have a vehicle bought another combustion engine. so the demand for anything economical went up, making the very-used car market shoot up, and that pushed up on the whole gradient. car dependency pushed people to accept those high prices and shit-deal financial products (like 84 month loans) that helped put the keys in their hands.

    by blocking EVs from coming to market, the powers have accelerated the squeeze and unless the pressure is reduced, the subprime car loan market is likely to burst into flames at some point. probably next time interest rates go up, would be my guess.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Used diesel trucks are insane. Even if youre buying from owner a good half ton/3/4 ton diesel truck goes for 18k+. And in talking late 90's early 2000's.

    And trust me you are going to want a used car. anything older than anything 2012 is malware spy device, and they all have shitty computers in then and start locking down parts of it you can actually repair. You'll start having to bring the car in so you can pay 2 grand for something that uses to be a 50 dollar fix and a trip to pick and pull.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (3 children)

    they all have shitty computers in then and start locking down parts of it you can actually repair.

    Thats still quite uncommon afaik, just Tesla, John Deer, and some supercars.

    Ducati will void your warrenty if they catch that you used the bike at a race track, and I know Kawa and Honda will void your warrenty if you have a flashed ECU and turn in a detonated engine.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (2 children)

    This is my retelling of what I surmized my mechanics friends telling of it, so what I'm saying isnt probably worth two shits, but he said independent shops are sort of getting locked out. You have to do subscriptions to use their software, their diagnostic tools, and you have to pay a fee to reprogram the computers when you add new parts, and many of those parts will keep giving error codes or not properly function unless its a OEM part.

    He said once cars start getting more advanced with "saftey" features they get harder to work on dramatically. When all the updates start needing to come from 4g Sim cards in the car and can only work with their servers. Everything that's new new just has to start going straight to the dealer.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    You have to do subscriptions to use their software, their diagnostic tools, and you have to pay a fee to reprogram the computers

    Damn. I knew in the 90s every manufacturer had its own diagnostic tool, I thought they had standardized. I guess it got shitfy again.

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  • [–] 2 points 21 hours ago*

    I think software wise the diagnostic tools have to verify with the computer it's authentic or something like that, ot might still be the obd standard.

    And this is under the guise that someone could hack into your car and stalk you or disable parts of your car to kill you. My problem with that argument is that the car shouldnt be designed to do that in the first place. Cars want so badly to become a subscription service and make money off selling ads and data. And the worst part is there are soooo many less privacy protections in your car than with other consumer electronics. Its like the LG situation but waaaay worse.

    Cars are in the process of being not cars anymore and transforming into this weird thing you arent going to own, but its not going to be public transport because you as a individual still have to pay for majority of the funding in someway because everything has to be done through apps now.

    So imagine a world where you buy a Tesla full self driving car, and it costs more than your house. To subsidies that you rent out your car as a robo taxi to make money to help pay it off, which will take 10+ years. And on top of that elon musk takes a 30% cut and is incharge of all the rates you receive and that the rider has to pay. Meaning there will be dark patterns that manipulate you like door dash does to force drivers to work for less money. You can't work on the car only a special mechanic can and has to get sent to Tesla who is incharge of what they can charge you, and can revoke your access to the car and keep your money. It will just self reposes itself like fords patent

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  • [–] 19 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    that's optimistic, thinking they won't double down on mechanisms to persecute and murder the general public in the time it takes for that to happen

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    Oh no that's why it's legit just going to be boomers (likely in some LTC hell being used to extract what remains of their savings), labor slaves via the prison system or company "towns", and legit nomads trying to stay ahead of said gestapo police 2.0. Everyone else will likely have been murdered or fled the country.

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  • [–] 27 points 3 days ago

    If the world won't trade sanction the US, I guess the US will trade sanction itself

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  • [–] 21 points 3 days ago (10 children)

    Aren't they essentially banned already??

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  • [–] 19 points 3 days ago

    They are talking about building factories in Mexico and Canada, Canada already imports sone luxury evs. This would prevent cars made in those factories or chinese cars made in europe, or if byd made a factory in the US from being sold.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (8 children)

    Currently I think we just put a import tarrif of something like 300% on the cars to the point its not worth buying.

    I think the concern now is that our cars are so shit, over regulated and expenwove that even then it might be worth paying 3x the cost.

    That and only our cars are allowed to spy on everyone. Cars have worse privacy than LG TV's and I imagine they they can't risk losing a potential source of spyware to the Chinese.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    our cars are so shit, over regulated and expensive that even then it might be worth paying 3x the cost.

    Iirc the CEO of Ford(?) basically said exactly that - BYD in particular are releasing cars that are better than American ones that are 2-3 times the price. Without the tariffs even sinophobia wouldn't be able to hold them back from dominating the market.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (6 children)

    Man I don't wana get riled up about how much I hate the modern automotive industry today.

    I think we should of let gm go bankrupt and fail.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (5 children)

    They should have nationalized GM, retooled production around the Volt almost exclusively, and shuttered the CAFE light truck loophole. Let Chrysler and Ford go bankrupt and fail, and provide affordable and efficient small cars to Americans at cost.

    The Cash 4 Clunkers program would have made significantly more sense if it had been about replacing old and inefficient large vehicles with an efficient single model fleet of Plug-in Hybrids, instead of just letting people trade in whatever they had for a massive SUV.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (4 children)

    Maybe I should remain more optimisitic instead of expecting everything to be fixed by a constant death and rebirth of things.

    I think my negativity would of never let my brain think of something like that, but thats actually well thought out and put together.

    I'm not as caught up in car politics but I think it would of made more sense to nationalize a group of manufacturers like Mopar/stelantis and its more like having a system where you build your own car from a standard of parts. More of a kit car type of deal but just more open as a platform for consumers and independent shops/dealers to build/work on.

    Thats the other thing that confuses me is there are so many laws now and I have not kept up as much as I should. Some of it seems outdated like the fact we need dealerships. Theres also bunch of saftey laws that force in tech that trains worse drivers, and make the car less reliable and less safe in other regards. Drive by wire, no physical door nobs, people only using blind spot detectors, or using lane assist as an excuse to not pay attention. Most Americans want an eletric vehicle its just now all eletric vehicles mean they have to feel like a iPhone too. I never drove a volt but something that feels more basic like the older Prius's (hybrid) felt like a comfortable medium.

    I worked with a newer volvo that had a loose battery terminal and you couldn't access soo much of the car just because there wasn't a solid connection. There was no way to get it into neutral, and it felt much more like working with a windows 10 troubleshooting wizard where you are locked out by a incompetent computer and you can't get it in neutral to get toed or do anything basic like moving the steering wheel. All we had to do was rig up a weird battery terminal, but even then they had to make it hard because they don't actually want you in the hood of the car. The battery is tucked away under a compartment and the wires are hard to access in a way that says don't touch me. I know that's not an american car but still that's the direction the car industry is going.

    I'm more likely to think if self driving is ever possible that the plan is cars will be so expensive its not something you buy to own but rather rent from someone else via an app. So essentially making the public pay for elon musks private taxi network that he ultimately owns. So they don't want a car to be this thing you work on anymore the industry wants it to be a service, or a buisness opportunity that you buy into and let some app take 30% off all your profits from renting out your car. If you own a car it will be a luxury like owning a jet.

    So much of modern cars are almost there, ford has a patent for self driving cars to repo themselfs if you miss a payment. You can't fix many of the high end cars and strictly have to return them to the dealer. Even if you could work on then the electronics have a lot of proprietary software that you can't really access. Shit like the motors for your windshield wipers are Vin locked so you can't get third party parts.

    And I didnt even touch how bad they are for privacy. Like I would probably have to disclose to anyone in my car that I'm in a two party consent state for recording and my car is actively listening to our conversation and logging everything about you.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

    I'm sorry but I think the Carbrain might be terminal. We DO NOT need numerous models of car. That's the opposite of what we want. There's a reason that national auto programs focus on one model of small car that meets the needs of all. VW Beetle, Trabant 500, ZAZ Zaporozhets, Fiat 500, Citroën 2CV, Tata Nano, BMC Mini, Proton Saga, etc. Compare this to the fucking chaos of something like the Indonesian LCGC or Thai Eco Car programs.

    Safety features do not train worse drivers, that's cope from insecure men who want to feel like they're a good driver because they're not "dependent" on safety features. It's a half-step removed from "no seatbelts, we die like men" type toxic masculinity.

    I get it, you want to touchy-touchy all the car parts and fix stuff yourself in your yard, but 99.9% of people cannot and will not change their own oil. They don't want a toy to wrench on. People's Cars are for people to get from point a to point b as safely and economically as possible in a scenario where public transportation is not reliable or available. It's not a status symbol, it's not a toy, it's not a reflection of your personality. It's a tool. Wrenching and a new car culture will crop up around the People's Car because it always does. (People still love/hate Trabis and Polski Fiats)

    I guarantee that most people would be happier with a cookie cutter Volt (very similar to a Prius) where economies of scale make parts incredibly cheap and available because it's identical to half the cars on the road. A nationalized People's Car program necessarily isn't going to produce The Homer with VIN lockouts and subscriptions and other Luxury Euro manufacturer bullshit, because the goal is to produce a huge number of cheap cars as quickly as possible and sell them for minimal to no profit.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

    You don't need lots of different models of cars, I think we actually more on the same page than you think. I think there needs to be some variation because often vehicles are someone's work platform.

    I do think it should focus on more sedan frames which are smaller and best suited for everyone but you still need truck and van frames, and having unified parts would make it very easy to share across the platforms. And it doesnt have to be big trucks or massive machines because not everyone needs that. Kei trucks for example are pretty big right now and very practical. All the cars due to aero dynamics have become the same shape anyways, just make like 5 standard frame, standardize all the parts and then just focus on battery improvements, electronic motors, the important stuff. Also everything should be mechanical first, door nobs, switches, steering, etc.

    Going to have to disagree with you on the saftey stuff. You should have a moderate amount of fear when driving and still feel the need to turn your head when merging, or not feel encouraged to text on the free way going 90 mph because you have lane assist. Not only that but their attention is now being split between the road and a entertainment dash board screen that they some how expected to interact with for everything in the car(including features you need to drive the car), but also not while driving. I wouldn't compare that to being against the seat belts as I want people to be more safe not take the path of least resistance because now they have an excuse not to do the bare minimum which is just being present when driving. A more accurate comparison is I don't want people to take off their seatbelts because its legal now, because elon says self driving is safer than a human driver. I don't want people falsely lulled into a false sense of security thinking they no longer need to be present or mindful because they're in a large protective bubble that gives the illusion its protecting you.

    But ultimately with your last paragraph I think we kind of end up with the same goal and vision, most people would be happy with a easy car they don't have to worry about. Its a lot easier if all the parts are standardized and meant to be interchangeable for all american vehicles. You could take it to any mechanic and it would likely be half as expensive and twice as fast. Might be as fast as getting your tires replaced at Costco in some cases.

    And hell if it was done well even if you where piss poor and slow you could follow a YouTube guide on how to fix it with just a standard socket set and a screw driver. I'm piss poor and dumb and I fix my own car not because I want to but mainly because its increasingly becoming more expensive. Taking that away from people is like taking away their autonomy to address a problem in times of need or adding flexibility to it. Maybe they have a family member that can fix cars for less, or can get the part cheaper from a third party, or you fabricated/3d printed yourself.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    I think there's room for like, sub-models within a single car. Sedan, hatchback, ute. https://www.smythkitcars.com/product-page/smyth-truck-kit-for-1999-5-2004-vw-jetta-golf-4dr There's pretty much no truck use case for a normal person that this sort of thing wouldn't cover.

    I'm shocked by how mechanically simple a lot of EVs actually are. They're definitely not something that your average backyard dude should be wrenching on though, purely because of the HV system. I do not wanna see my neighbor launch himself across the yard on fire after touching the 800V lines.

    But EVs also require way less maintenance. My wife and I have a 2017 bolt EV and the only things that have needed replacement have been tires and the windshield wiper sprayer fuse (who tf sells a car full of the kind of wiper fluid that freezes? In Canada???)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    Thats pretty much just a body kit for a frame is what you are describing pretty much. But yeah that's about what I mean.

    You still need industrial sized vehicles and frames for people who work construction, or for things like long haul trucking with bigger rigs, but ultimately yes the cheapest most publicly available mass produced vehicle will essentially sit on a little sedan frame which you can out fit with like a kei truck body, or just stick to being a sedan.

    And besides physically wiring up the body every thing else will be the same and universal and work between everything as if it was the same car essentially.

    I think we are describing the same thing and I imagine our visions have overlap. Like I guess a nationalized single car company would have standardized parts and there would inspire its own maker community, I just feel like its leaving the option for anyone to buy these cheap mass produce parts and create their own vehicle that is appropriate to their needs, but in a way that still has a standard for emissions and saftey due to everyone commuting to this platform. Maybe I'm just reinventing dealerships ultimately or its pointless but I enjoy the communities that spin up around cars and how they do mods like that jetta one you sent me. I would rather encourage that enviorment and I think its wonderful.

    Maybe that is some residual car brain left in me but I think that you could turn that energy around into a better productive force. This is anecdotal, but even the most car brain chuds I know want something like the slate truck, or kei trucks. They don't want to drive giant trucks anymore, very few need to everyday. I think you can make cars better and appeal to the most car brain chuds in a way that might turn out more productive if you made going electric, or small really cool. Then that knowledge kind of circulates back into the community and there could be growth and advancements.

    I guess if my goal as a country is to inspire growth to later export I think I need some form of capalist system not just full on this is your one state assigned car. And I would rather that be in the form of everyone has access to parts and can build their own product from said parts. Especially when theres going to be a lack of work in the near future. I'm sure that has its own list of harsh realities and a lot of reasons why we don't do that but a man can dream.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 days ago* (3 children)

    Chinese car imports already have a 125% tariff, are they talking about categorically banning them even if they're made in Mexico or Canada?

    e: https://www.reuters.com/world/automakers-urge-congress-quickly-pass-law-banning-chinese-cars-2026-09-03/

    It's even dumber:

    "Right now, Chinese automakers are dumping subsidized vehicles with connected software and hardware around the world," the group's CEO John Bozzella wrote Congress in a letter seen ​by Reuters. "This hasn’t happened inside the U.S. yet, but given the scale and urgency of this threat, we ​urge you to enact a Chinese vehicle, software and hardware ban before adjourning this year and ⁠make this policy the law of the land."

    Senate Commerce Committee Chair Ted Cruz said a provision in ​the bill that would ban companies with more than 15% ownership by Chinese entities ​would bar Mercedes-Benz (MBGn.DE), opens new tab ⁠from selling vehicles in the United States because of its nearly 20% passive Chinese investment.

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  • [–] 22 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    China please invest in every car company you could do something so funny

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  • [+] 20 points 3 days ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    Free market is the bessst... No wait my monopoly, bann them.

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