Simon_Shitewood comments on Capitalists: Let the free market decide!

[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago (7 children)

our cars are so shit, over regulated and expensive that even then it might be worth paying 3x the cost.

Iirc the CEO of Ford(?) basically said exactly that - BYD in particular are releasing cars that are better than American ones that are 2-3 times the price. Without the tariffs even sinophobia wouldn't be able to hold them back from dominating the market.

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[–] FoxAlive@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 days ago* (6 children)

Man I don't wana get riled up about how much I hate the modern automotive industry today.

I think we should of let gm go bankrupt and fail.

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[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago* (5 children)

They should have nationalized GM, retooled production around the Volt almost exclusively, and shuttered the CAFE light truck loophole. Let Chrysler and Ford go bankrupt and fail, and provide affordable and efficient small cars to Americans at cost.

The Cash 4 Clunkers program would have made significantly more sense if it had been about replacing old and inefficient large vehicles with an efficient single model fleet of Plug-in Hybrids, instead of just letting people trade in whatever they had for a massive SUV.

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[–] FoxAlive@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 days ago (4 children)

Maybe I should remain more optimisitic instead of expecting everything to be fixed by a constant death and rebirth of things.

I think my negativity would of never let my brain think of something like that, but thats actually well thought out and put together.

I'm not as caught up in car politics but I think it would of made more sense to nationalize a group of manufacturers like Mopar/stelantis and its more like having a system where you build your own car from a standard of parts. More of a kit car type of deal but just more open as a platform for consumers and independent shops/dealers to build/work on.

Thats the other thing that confuses me is there are so many laws now and I have not kept up as much as I should. Some of it seems outdated like the fact we need dealerships. Theres also bunch of saftey laws that force in tech that trains worse drivers, and make the car less reliable and less safe in other regards. Drive by wire, no physical door nobs, people only using blind spot detectors, or using lane assist as an excuse to not pay attention. Most Americans want an eletric vehicle its just now all eletric vehicles mean they have to feel like a iPhone too. I never drove a volt but something that feels more basic like the older Prius's (hybrid) felt like a comfortable medium.

I worked with a newer volvo that had a loose battery terminal and you couldn't access soo much of the car just because there wasn't a solid connection. There was no way to get it into neutral, and it felt much more like working with a windows 10 troubleshooting wizard where you are locked out by a incompetent computer and you can't get it in neutral to get toed or do anything basic like moving the steering wheel. All we had to do was rig up a weird battery terminal, but even then they had to make it hard because they don't actually want you in the hood of the car. The battery is tucked away under a compartment and the wires are hard to access in a way that says don't touch me. I know that's not an american car but still that's the direction the car industry is going.

I'm more likely to think if self driving is ever possible that the plan is cars will be so expensive its not something you buy to own but rather rent from someone else via an app. So essentially making the public pay for elon musks private taxi network that he ultimately owns. So they don't want a car to be this thing you work on anymore the industry wants it to be a service, or a buisness opportunity that you buy into and let some app take 30% off all your profits from renting out your car. If you own a car it will be a luxury like owning a jet.

So much of modern cars are almost there, ford has a patent for self driving cars to repo themselfs if you miss a payment. You can't fix many of the high end cars and strictly have to return them to the dealer. Even if you could work on then the electronics have a lot of proprietary software that you can't really access. Shit like the motors for your windshield wipers are Vin locked so you can't get third party parts.

And I didnt even touch how bad they are for privacy. Like I would probably have to disclose to anyone in my car that I'm in a two party consent state for recording and my car is actively listening to our conversation and logging everything about you.

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[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

I'm sorry but I think the Carbrain might be terminal. We DO NOT need numerous models of car. That's the opposite of what we want. There's a reason that national auto programs focus on one model of small car that meets the needs of all. VW Beetle, Trabant 500, ZAZ Zaporozhets, Fiat 500, Citroën 2CV, Tata Nano, BMC Mini, Proton Saga, etc. Compare this to the fucking chaos of something like the Indonesian LCGC or Thai Eco Car programs.

Safety features do not train worse drivers, that's cope from insecure men who want to feel like they're a good driver because they're not "dependent" on safety features. It's a half-step removed from "no seatbelts, we die like men" type toxic masculinity.

I get it, you want to touchy-touchy all the car parts and fix stuff yourself in your yard, but 99.9% of people cannot and will not change their own oil. They don't want a toy to wrench on. People's Cars are for people to get from point a to point b as safely and economically as possible in a scenario where public transportation is not reliable or available. It's not a status symbol, it's not a toy, it's not a reflection of your personality. It's a tool. Wrenching and a new car culture will crop up around the People's Car because it always does. (People still love/hate Trabis and Polski Fiats)

I guarantee that most people would be happier with a cookie cutter Volt (very similar to a Prius) where economies of scale make parts incredibly cheap and available because it's identical to half the cars on the road. A nationalized People's Car program necessarily isn't going to produce The Homer with VIN lockouts and subscriptions and other Luxury Euro manufacturer bullshit, because the goal is to produce a huge number of cheap cars as quickly as possible and sell them for minimal to no profit.

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[–] FoxAlive@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

You don't need lots of different models of cars, I think we actually more on the same page than you think. I think there needs to be some variation because often vehicles are someone's work platform.

I do think it should focus on more sedan frames which are smaller and best suited for everyone but you still need truck and van frames, and having unified parts would make it very easy to share across the platforms. And it doesnt have to be big trucks or massive machines because not everyone needs that. Kei trucks for example are pretty big right now and very practical. All the cars due to aero dynamics have become the same shape anyways, just make like 5 standard frame, standardize all the parts and then just focus on battery improvements, electronic motors, the important stuff. Also everything should be mechanical first, door nobs, switches, steering, etc.

Going to have to disagree with you on the saftey stuff. You should have a moderate amount of fear when driving and still feel the need to turn your head when merging, or not feel encouraged to text on the free way going 90 mph because you have lane assist. Not only that but their attention is now being split between the road and a entertainment dash board screen that they some how expected to interact with for everything in the car(including features you need to drive the car), but also not while driving. I wouldn't compare that to being against the seat belts as I want people to be more safe not take the path of least resistance because now they have an excuse not to do the bare minimum which is just being present when driving. A more accurate comparison is I don't want people to take off their seatbelts because its legal now, because elon says self driving is safer than a human driver. I don't want people falsely lulled into a false sense of security thinking they no longer need to be present or mindful because they're in a large protective bubble that gives the illusion its protecting you.

But ultimately with your last paragraph I think we kind of end up with the same goal and vision, most people would be happy with a easy car they don't have to worry about. Its a lot easier if all the parts are standardized and meant to be interchangeable for all american vehicles. You could take it to any mechanic and it would likely be half as expensive and twice as fast. Might be as fast as getting your tires replaced at Costco in some cases.

And hell if it was done well even if you where piss poor and slow you could follow a YouTube guide on how to fix it with just a standard socket set and a screw driver. I'm piss poor and dumb and I fix my own car not because I want to but mainly because its increasingly becoming more expensive. Taking that away from people is like taking away their autonomy to address a problem in times of need or adding flexibility to it. Maybe they have a family member that can fix cars for less, or can get the part cheaper from a third party, or you fabricated/3d printed yourself.

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[–] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 child)

I think there's room for like, sub-models within a single car. Sedan, hatchback, ute. https://www.smythkitcars.com/product-page/smyth-truck-kit-for-1999-5-2004-vw-jetta-golf-4dr There's pretty much no truck use case for a normal person that this sort of thing wouldn't cover.

I'm shocked by how mechanically simple a lot of EVs actually are. They're definitely not something that your average backyard dude should be wrenching on though, purely because of the HV system. I do not wanna see my neighbor launch himself across the yard on fire after touching the 800V lines.

But EVs also require way less maintenance. My wife and I have a 2017 bolt EV and the only things that have needed replacement have been tires and the windshield wiper sprayer fuse (who tf sells a car full of the kind of wiper fluid that freezes? In Canada???)

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[–] FoxAlive@lemmy.zip 1 point 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Thats pretty much just a body kit for a frame is what you are describing pretty much. But yeah that's about what I mean.

You still need industrial sized vehicles and frames for people who work construction, or for things like long haul trucking with bigger rigs, but ultimately yes the cheapest most publicly available mass produced vehicle will essentially sit on a little sedan frame which you can out fit with like a kei truck body, or just stick to being a sedan.

And besides physically wiring up the body every thing else will be the same and universal and work between everything as if it was the same car essentially.

I think we are describing the same thing and I imagine our visions have overlap. Like I guess a nationalized single car company would have standardized parts and there would inspire its own maker community, I just feel like its leaving the option for anyone to buy these cheap mass produce parts and create their own vehicle that is appropriate to their needs, but in a way that still has a standard for emissions and saftey due to everyone commuting to this platform. Maybe I'm just reinventing dealerships ultimately or its pointless but I enjoy the communities that spin up around cars and how they do mods like that jetta one you sent me. I would rather encourage that enviorment and I think its wonderful.

Maybe that is some residual car brain left in me but I think that you could turn that energy around into a better productive force. This is anecdotal, but even the most car brain chuds I know want something like the slate truck, or kei trucks. They don't want to drive giant trucks anymore, very few need to everyday. I think you can make cars better and appeal to the most car brain chuds in a way that might turn out more productive if you made going electric, or small really cool. Then that knowledge kind of circulates back into the community and there could be growth and advancements.

I guess if my goal as a country is to inspire growth to later export I think I need some form of capalist system not just full on this is your one state assigned car. And I would rather that be in the form of everyone has access to parts and can build their own product from said parts. Especially when theres going to be a lack of work in the near future. I'm sure that has its own list of harsh realities and a lot of reasons why we don't do that but a man can dream.

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