I'm not into tipping when I've visited the US, since I come from a country where servers are paid the equivalent of Fr. 20-30 ($24-43) an hour so there isn't an obligation to tip them, but that's the opposite in the US. Am I allowed to hand them large cash tips such as Fr. 1000 ($1236) or 500€ ($583)? It gets weirder: as apparently fast food places demand a tip, like really? It's getting out of hand, what's the point then?

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Not an American but lived there for some time. Just tip. It's how these servers survive. Your not tipping helps nothing.

There's an expression: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Sure, you can visit other countries and refuse to respect local customs, but that's an awfully American attitude. You're not one. Be better.

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  • If someone hasn't put in any time or effort specifically catering to you ( like a server )

    Refuse

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago

    You can absolutely refuse. Be prepared for people to react badly though.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago

    You know the older I get the more I realise that the only thing the US has in common with other English speaking countries is the language. It's like the US is behind the rest of the world or in some cases does completely opposite, then trys to force their way of thinking or standards on everyone else

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  • [–] 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    At least in the U.S.. Tipping culture is massively inefficient, unfair and tragically codified into law. It should be abolished in every sense of the word.

    But... having said that, I can't say "don't tip". Yes the customer is being guilted into subsidizing a workers wage, but NOT tipping directly hurts the worker that we all agree should be making more then what's agreed. It sucks but there is no action customers can take that will result in service members being paid more. The problem is too far rampant and ingrained. It would take a herculean legal rework, massive ad campaigns and decades to fully end.

    So unfortunately, because it is the norm and all employees and employers plan on it, my answer is yes you have to tip.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    A little while back in another thread, someone was arguing that the only way to force the US away from tipping was to not tip. That is just...that's not going to work.

    Okay, let's say that enough people stopped tipping servers to the point that the employers have to start making up the difference to pay them minimum wage. Then what? Small businesses already operating on a thin margin close. Chains raise prices. Previously tipped workers probably make less than half of what they did previously. And the government? They do nothing because, heck, everyone is getting paid enough. Because we all know that US minimum wage is definitely something people can live on.

    Increased prices and closing of some small businesses seems inevitable no matter how you go about it, but we can't just rely on restaurants paying servers up to $7.25 an hour and expecting them to survive. It's a massive change and needs to come from the top down. And I can't see that happening.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 hours ago (1 child)

    Those restaurants do already pay more than minimum wage for the most part. Look at McDonald’s national average for their lowest paid employees. It’s $12-$14/h.

    And like another person so kindly pointed out in this thread, they make 15-20x of $40/h waiting tables. Not tipping is not going to hurt most servers. It’s just going to get those servers to help change the law quicker.

    That massive change never comes from the top down. It comes from the bottom up. That’s literally every law in this fucking country. If people don’t push for it, it will not change. Slavery, women’s rights, gender rights, marriage rights, literally all of it is bottom up change.

    Chains raise prices

    There have been so many studies on this. It’s something like, for every $1 increase in minimum wage, food costs go up by $.01. Businesses have done a hilariously good job of convincing citizens that any increase in wages will hurt the costs of food.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago

    Sorry for any confusion. I don't consider McDonald's a tipped server. I'm talking about restaurant workers whose hourly wage without tips is below minimum wage.

    The "tip everyone working any service job" is something else entirely.

    Obviously a single customer not tipping doesn't hurt a server financially, but this isn't really about a single customer, right? You have to get to a tipping point (no pun intended) to affect change. If we all just gave up on tipping without a solution in place, who suffers? The servers. That's it.

    Fair enough on raising prices, but with chains I was thinking less about the increase coming from paying employees and more from "look, people will pay more!"

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  • [–] 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

    Tipping culture in the US is so intense that I tend not to eat out at all when I'm there, which hasn't been in half a decade now. I hear it's gotten worse since I left.

    And, with digital tipping especially it irks me because I hate paying a card company a cut on money for service workers.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago

    Most cashiers and restaurant staff in this country are living below the poverty line so they'd really appreciate it. Also in the case of cashiers we have to stand all fucking day. I fucking hate it here.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    I'm surprised people are so flippant about this. In the US, tipping is legally optional but socially mandatory in many situations, especially with wait staff at a restaurant. So while you could opt not to tip, you'll definitely ruffle some feathers if you don't.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    You don’t have to tip ever. For those who don’t know, if a server doesn’t make at least minimum wage off of tips then the employer must make up the difference. So at minimum they will get minimum wage, not nothing.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Not quite correct. We're guaranteed at least a minimum wage over the pay period but we also tip out our own support staff based on sales. So if you tip me less than (at my restaurant) 7.5% of the pretax subtotal, I paid money to wait on you. Few people are that charming.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Required by law, ignored in practice.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Report your employer. It won’t be ignored.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (1 child)

    And I the meantime you can be sure to get really choicey treatment! And you can do it after working 4 doubles in a row that start at 745am and go until 1130pm each night.

    The people who work these jobs (and I used to be one), aren't crunching these numbers day in and day out.

    Mostly YOU just look like a giant fucker if you don't tip. It's not doing anyone any favors.

    Edit:

    And stop commenting bro. Illegal or not it is clear you have no experience in the industry and it's not so easy as just walking down to the ombudsman's office of the mom and pop shop that lets you make your bills every week.

    Change the system. Don't stiff the workers and make them deal with it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    I worked six years as a server. And yes, I did crunch those numbers lol. I wanted to know when I was making minimum wage or not. Anyone who doesn’t is an idiot who lets their employer take advantage of them.

    You change the system by not tipping. You don’t change it by continuing to tip.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    If you are making above minimum wage you are not number crunching. Maybe if you work at Chili's I guess.

    From the server side, having 5 people a day stiff you hurts more than it helps. If your answer is "well fuck, get everyone to stop tipping until servers make less than minimum wage so that they complain and change this" and then say you did it, it's some real crab bucket shit, no?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    If you are making above minimum wage you are not number crunching. Maybe if you work at Chili's I guess.

    Huh? I made upwards of $40 an hour serving. I still counted my pay. Why the fuck wouldn’t you?

    From the server side, having 5 people a day stiff you hurts more than it helps. If your answer is "well fuck, get everyone to stop tipping until servers make less than minimum wage so that they complain and change this" and then say you did it, it's some real crab bucket shit, no?

    If the state you live in cares about you then minimum wage is already higher than federal by a large amount. Not tipping in a $20/h state helps those in shittier states.

    No clue what “crab bucket shit” means.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Huh? I made upwards of $40 an hour serving. I still counted my pay. Why the fuck wouldn’t you?

    Because it doesn't matter how much you make if you are appreciably beating minimum wage until you file taxes? I'm in the same boat where I worked in a white tablecloth restaurant, and it just doesn't matter if you are guaranteed to beat it the minimum. There's not a prize for knowing your take-home pay to the nearest dollar week over week.

    It must be nice then living in a state with $20/h wages, that is not how it goes here. At the same time, knocking down the bottom line of your lowest paid workers is still checks notes a dick move. That's true no matter who you are.

    Crab bucket: you know how bad things are, but you intentionally punish other crabs in the bucket so nobody (or only a few) get out.

    If your perspective is "this problem gets better if I, personally, don't tip" you, tyler, are personally asshole. Period. And the more you understand the situation the worse it makes you look, not better.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Because it doesn't matter how much you make if you are appreciably beating minimum wage until you file taxes? I'm in the same boat where I worked in a white tablecloth restaurant, and it just doesn't matter if you are guaranteed to beat it the minimum. There's not a prize for knowing your take-home pay to the nearest dollar week over week.

    What are you even talking about. Literally nothing you are saying makes sense. If you are making appreciably above minimum wage, then why would you be worrying about not making tips?

    At the same time, knocking down the bottom line of your lowest paid workers is still checks notes a dick move. That's true no matter who you are.

    Who is knocking down any low paid workers?

    Crab bucket: you know how bad things are, but you intentionally punish other crabs in the bucket so nobody (or only a few) get out.

    Huh? This metaphor makes no sense. Punish them how? With what?

    If your perspective is "this problem gets better if I, personally, don't tip" you, tyler, are personally asshole. Period. And the more you understand the situation the worse it makes you look, not better.

    And yet this is how the entire rest of the world works. Are they all assholes? You keep thinking whatever you want, I guarantee you make ten times what I did working in a boonies Mexican restaurant, and even at the time I pushed for no tips and better pay. That was with federal minimum wage.

    You’re just getting paid a ridiculous amount and see no tips as a threat to that, rather than a boost to all the actual low paid servers out there. Those that do make minimum wage every week because their employers say employees make more getting tipped.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    Are you being intentionally obtuse?

    You care about making tips because consistent income means you can make plans.

    Who is knocking down any low paid workers?

    That would be you, or OP, or anyone who is rejecting tipping culture by independently stiffing people LIKE A HERO (/s).

    Direct follow -> look up crab bucket. The idea is you pull others down to keep them from succeeding. It sure seems like that is what you are doing if you understand the situation.

    And the end:

    Yes the rest of the world is better about this. And no, I don't make 10 times what you made, it is more like 15 or 20. I don't see "no tips" as a threat, I see no tips (individually) as only affecting the servers you encounter who are trying to scrape by who ARE NOT THE ONES TO PUNISH.

    I make a shitload of money (yeehaw! It only took 13 years of college), and with that money I can cause some change. The difference between you and I is, having lived the life, I don't do that by being a giant fucker and cheaply keeping $10 in my pocket.

    Quit being a cheap bastard. Tip your workers. Then vote, volunteer, and donate money in that order. Or bookmark this post, and when you cross 40 read the thread again and respond. I feel like you might think about it differently.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Depending on where you are in the country, the minimum wage can be as low as $7.25/hr. For tipped employees, that minimum becomes $2.13, with the intent that tips make up the rest.

    So, that's a $5.12 difference, with a standard 15% tip a server gets that waiting on a single table with a $40 about in a hour.

    Needless to say, most wait staff here are relying on tips for the bulk of their income, and when you fail to tip it's equivalent to making them work for free. I wish it wasn't like that here. But in case you haven't noticed, we have a lot worse problems right now. I don't think fixing it will be on any politicians radar....

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    when you fail to tip it's equivalent to making them work for free.

    It's even worse than that sometimes. At my last serving job, I was required to tip out back of house a percentage of my sales. So when a table left me absolutely nothing, it actually cost me money to serve that table. I didn't stick around at that job long.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago

    No it’s not, the minimum is $2.13 if they receive tips to get to federal minimum wage. If the tips do not get you to that 7.25 (or whatever it is in your state) then your employer must make up the difference.

    In other words, even if you’re maybe $100 an hour off of tips, you’ll still be making $2.13 an hour from your employer. But if you only make $2 an hour from tips, your employer has to pay you actual minimum wage in your state.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    This is with regards to the US restaurant/food service industry only, as that is where my experience lies. It is exceptionally rare (though it is getting better) to go to a restaurant and pay what it actually costs to put that plate of food in front of you. There is an assumption that the price on the menu is enough to cover the total cost of the plate, however this is generally not the case. Often it is enough to cover everything except for an amount that would bring the staff wages to a sustainable level (generally allowing for a not insignificant cut going to the owner, and another cut going to the landlord), which means that tips are required in order to keep staff in the restaurant. I’m not saying this is a good/bad practice, I am just stating how it usually works. Customers who are not willing to pay more for a plate when ordering are often willing to pay an additional fee (tip) for the perceived added value of “service.” There are always people who will only ever pay the bare minimum and won’t tip. There are always people who are generous and appreciate the plight of the food service worker in the US and always tip. These two types often balance in the favor of the worker in the long run, if not on a daily basis. And the average customer tipping the generally accepted average percentage keeps things afloat.

    This is the system we have in the US. It has functioned for a long time to provide both the owners and workers a livable income. Do I think this is a healthy practice for a thriving society? No. Am I trapped by the society I exist in and have very little personal ability to combat? Yes. But of the few ways I have to combat this, taking money away from the workers so that it only goes to the owners is not a tool I chose to use.

    Instead I prefer to spend my money at places that are actively working to upend this practice: worker owned restaurants, co-ops, places that pay a livable wage and discourage tipping, etc., but I’m not about to punish those that are also trapped by the system. I am more than happy to name and shame owners who don’t treat their employees with respect, nor do I believe that non-worker owners should be a thing, period.

    But to not tip is a form of protest that only hurts those most punished by the system, and does absolutely nothing to impact the people who are perpetrating the system. Basically it is the most ineffectual thing one can do.

    If you really want to hit ‘em where it hurts, do something that actually hurts the owner’s bottom line… Like publicly shaming the business owners greediness by writing a low score review that praises the workers, food & service while calling out the owners for not paying their employees a livable wage. Or being in cahoots with the servers and getting items comped in exchange for a larger tip (effectively paying the worker instead of the owner). There are ways, you just have to find them. Just don’t kick the already down workers in doing so.

    Edit to add: I wrote this while riding the bus home at the end of my workweek (6 doubles at 3 restaurants so no overtime for me, yaaaaaayyyy), so please excuse any non-sequiturs, idiosyncrasies, unconnected thoughts or errors as being due to my deliriously exhausted mental state.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    It can be confusing in the US because almost every point of sale system asks for a tip now. As a general rule, if you are paying before you consume your food then no tip is required. If you are paying after you have been served and eaten, then a tip is socially expected: 10% for "poor" service, 15% for average, and 20%+ for exceptional service. Not tipping is also an option, but largely considered "A Dick Move" by most people. If your transaction does not involve eating a meal then tipping should not be part of the transaction.

    There are of course exceptions and edge cases, but this should cover you 97% of the time.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    your allowed to had cash to anyone you like. tips are not mandatory but wait people are paid under the minimum wage in some cases legally. Many major cities are reversing this but there is a thing known as the sub minimum wage here.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    your allowed to had cash to anyone you like.

    Your sure about that?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    sorry. that should have been hand. people may not take it but its not illegal itself. Now if you suggest you are giving it to them to get something you should not. Like when recieving a ticket from a police officer. Then possibly not but if you literally did nothing but that it would be hard to prove you were trying to bribe them.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago

    We extended our “you have to tip because servers don’t get paid a real wage” logic beyond servers to all public facing work. The university aged people think it’s impolite not to tip when it’s available because they know those workers are underpaid and companies are happy to provide the option. Thus a new norm is born!

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    You are never obliged to tip, legally.

    Tips are for situations where a service worker is selling their labor to you directly without an intermediary; the tip allows you to in turn pay them directly without the managerial class taking a cut.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    If tips are really tips then it's optional. Mandatory payments are called fees or tax on top of goods and services.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    It's all the damn buttons. When the US got the same chip technology that Europe had, and all those little portable machines became commonplace here, they had to put tip buttons on all of them, and then everyone started using them for everything.

    The only time you should feel obligated to tip in the US is in a sit-down restaurant, where the waiter takes your order and brings you your food. If you sit through the whole meal and don't leave a tip, the waiter will think they've done something wrong, as some of their hourly pay is expected to be covered by tips. But no matter what the buttons say, 15% is sufficient, and 20% is generous.

    Getting takeout from the same place? Tips are not necessary. I sometimes leave 5% if I like the place. But since there's no 5% button, I take the time to do the mental math and enter the amount whe paying.

    Fast food? A concessions stand at a ballgame? You are under zero obligation to leave any tip, no matter what the buttons say.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Why are they so reliant on tips instead of the employer paying them? How much do they earn ONLY being paid by their employer after taxes? Consider that 7.25 USD an hour is before tax, what's their take home money?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago*

    When last I worked a server job (working on 20 years ago) the employer pays between 2 and 3 dollars an hour, the rest of the money is based on tips and must be CLAIMED BY THE SERVER.

    This means it is not uncommon to work, record the tips for two weeks or so, and then, if you did a GOOD job as a server, receive a paycheck which is $0. This means that the income tax charged against you for your payment from your employer and your tips exceeded the amount of the weekly paycheck. "BAD" servers make less money but get bigger paychecks from the employer.

    The money you claim after a night of work is all the money signed on a credit card (which most systems show to the penny) and whatever you admit to having made in cash. Tip amounts are by and large in the 18 to 25 percent range, so it's not like you can just call this zero.

    To the point:

    You are not obliged to tip. If you DONT tip there are repercussions. 1. You might actually cost your server some money because the government is basically assuming their income based on the amount of your check, that means the bigger the check you stiff, the worse it is for your server.

    And 2.

    Oh thank goodness 2.

    You can think whatever you want about tipping. It is a failed idea and should be fixed, but the people relying on tips have the least power anywhere in our economy to change it.

    If you don't tip, you have made it clear you are an asshole. If you go to the same place more than once, you will get increasingly shitty service. I would be happy to "forget" you are my table. You are punishing people based on your view of the world and you WILL get judged for it.

    You don't have to tip at Starbucks, but if you go to restaurants and stiff servers you aren't a commando for justice, you're just the other side of the obnxious American tourist coin: you're a flaming asshole.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    That 7.25 is a nationwide floor on the minimum wage set by the Federal Government. States are free to set a higher minimum. But in states where there is no minimum wage (so the Federal wage applies), tipped workers can be paid as little as $2.13 an hour directly by their employers, as long as they get at least $5.12 per hour in tips.

    Take home money is a different thing. Someone making minimum wage on a full-time (40 hr/wk) schedule would only make about $15000/yr. (Let's ignore the second jobs and overtime they are probably putting in for now.) The Federal standard deduction is currently around $16000, so if that person is single and not someone else's dependant they will likely end up owing no income taxes. But, they would owe 9.1% right off the top in Social Security and Medicare taxes. They would also have to consider health care. Some states subsidize certain health plans so low-income people can get basic coverage for very little, but that was part of the Medicare expansion that Trump shit all over....

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    Most countries including the US impose income tax (so no matter where you go, it's the same since income tax exists in a lot of countries except a few like UAE, Monaco, Bahamas). But, minimum wages are different by country: it's Fr. 25 ($30) per hour in Geneva (Switzerland) while it's $2.13 per hour in Texas (USA).

    Taxes deducted from one's paycheck is by definition used to fund welfare, roads, schools, health care, etc. as a nation's government need money for maintaning public infrastructure. How else do you have the highway (interstate) or how do hospitals stay operational? These things require government funding.

    Do YOU think paying high taxes are worth funding schools, hospitals, roads in the US considering their condition? (Since I last heard they're in rough condition in some areas as if they've been neglected).

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Do YOU think paying high taxes are worth funding schools, hospitals, roads in the US considering their condition?

    I do, considering that I continue to live in what many consider to be a "high-tax" state.

    There are lots of layers to taxes in the US, too:

    -income/payroll taxes are taken by the Feds and the States

    -sales taxes are taken by the states and local governments

    -property taxes are taken by local governments

    And there can be several layers of local governments. I live in a village, which is inside a town, which is inside a county, all with their own governing bodies. In addition, there is a school district, which is funded separately and has a separate boundary that incorporates parts of several towns.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Are you in Switzerland?

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