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[–] 159 points 2 months ago (28 children)

Good direction, but very futile considering that guardrails on LLMs are about as real as LLMs are intelligent

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  • [–] 68 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    It might not work, but it would serve to increase awareness that you absolutely cannot trust these machines to give you correct answers, ever.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    This is fair. The next step is to litigate the companies for the harms they cause.

    There's a whole drove of people now that have gotten harmed, murdered, and committed suicide because of the psychological harm that these models cause.

    Were it a car with some kind of manufacturing defect, there'd be recalls and you wouldn't be able to sell ones with the fault. If it was salad contaminated with bacteria, that'd be recalled and the entire batch would be destroyed. We're holding salad to a higher standard than technology that people are pushing to integrate deeply into society; into classrooms to help educate children, into medical settings to help organise journals and expedite the work of medical staff, into law... the list goes on.

    All the models do this, and it causes real harm to people, but other than individual families and such litigating them, no state has stepped in to protect its citizens.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    It’s awful that most people either don’t realize or don’t care. People seem to trust these companies above all else, which is insane. They don’t have the best interest of the users in mind. They only care about profits.

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    [–] 63 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    What about engineering? Food safety? Education? So many other fields could be added

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Some legislation is to lay the ground work to expand it later.

    Easier to lay a sub floor and put carpet over it later, than to just put carpet over the studs. When you're changing a massive thing like this, it's better to start small and work outwards. Canada introduced universal Dental and Phamacare and it was limited to certain demographics. People bitched about "Well what about me?"

    You're coming. Start with what/who is most important, make sure the system works, and carry on from there.

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  • [–] 53 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    New York State not New York City.

    I don't know why Mamdani is pictured. I think it is because the proposal was introduced in the State Senate by Kisten Gonzalez who is a DSA member.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    New York State not New York City.

    I don’t know why Mamdani is pictured

    the text in this image is also just flat-out wrong: the proposed legislation does not actually "ban AI from answering questions" on these subjects at all, as this post claims it does.

    https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2026/kristen-gonzalez/ny-state-senator-kristen-gonzalez-her-bill-address-ai explains that her bill is strictly about impersonating licensed professionals:

    We have documented instances of AI chatbots providing false medical license numbers to users and documented cases of real harm from AI chatbots providing misinformation. This is what my common-sense legislation addresses—protecting users from misinformation, scams, and fraud. This legislation does not prohibit a user from asking a chatbot questions or receiving general information and advice, as long as the chatbot is not presenting that information as a licensed professional. It would also not prohibit licensed professionals from consulting AI technology in the course of their work.

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  • [–] 42 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    If those AI techbros could form a coherent thought without AI, they'd be very upset!

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    [–] 32 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    What i don't like about this, is the ignorance towards every other field.

    The ai is not allowed to tell you that you might have some illness but the LLM is allowed to vibe code the system that holds your medical data, or the software of the medical device that analyses your e.g. blood and provide the data to the doctor.

    Systems and professions are interconnected. Chatgtp telling me that I have cancer is not as bad as chatgtp making mistakes causing my medical data to be stolen and sold.

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    [–] 25 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Can we add to this the engineering of any physical object that could threaten human safety? If this keeps up much longer we're going to have buildings falling on top of us.

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    [–] 23 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    Counterpoint:

    I diagnosed myself with something pretty significant using the internet, and then I went to get evaluated, and my suspicions were confirmed.

    This would prevent a lot of good, in addition to preventing some bad.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I diagnosed myself

    using the internet

    I'm going to assume you researched medical documents, studies, and journals to link things together, and not ask a chat bot "My foot hurts, what is wrong?"

    You're smart enough to self diagnose yourself with readily available information to the public, but not smart enough to not know the difference between that and a chat bot. That's remarkable.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I diagnosed myself

    Congrats, glad your life is hopefully changing for the better because of this.

    I hate taking the wind out of your sails but this is in the area of anecdotal evidence. You are a single person saying this for your specific case. I am sure we will get another few people confirming the same here.

    But what about how many people tried this and got nothing useful out? Or even a misdiagnose? Anyone enthusiastic about this possibility of AI diagnosing people wouldn't really mention this. People like to mention the successes but it needs to be weighed against the failures too, and I don't think there is a good record of that.

    If there is, its probably a medical study and I'd venture a guess that AI did not perform as well as a trained doctor.

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    [–] 14 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    Incredibly dumb approach.

    You should ban using AI for the purpose of legal disputes, medicine, etc, profesionally.

    Its not about the output, its about what you use it for.

    I am also 100% okay with legally requiring a clearly visible disclaimer that AI shouldnt be used for x/y/z and its output should alwats be fact checked or whatever.

    But trying to outright ban specific types of output is pointless and trivial to circumvent.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    I agree. You're spot on. This isn't a technical problem. We need to think less like engineers and more like lawyers on these things.

    You don't require AI companies to have their models refuse to give out legal advice. As you note, that's a fool's errand. Instead, you make it a felony to use any LLM to write legal advice. Currently lawyers are already facing court sanctions for using AI to write their briefs. If you really want to get serious, you make it a felony. Apply the same penalty to a doctor using an LLM to diagnose their patients as you would if I decided to open a clinic in my house and start practicing medicine without a license. Charge people operating AI therapists with practicing psychology without a license.

    This isn't a technical problem, it's a legal one. You don't try to regulate the LLMs themselves. You just make it a severe felony to use that technology in certain highly sensitive applications and professions.

    And sure, one could say that we don't have a reliable way of screening AI from human made work. But again, that would be thinking like an engineer, not a lawyer. You don't enforce these laws by screening thousands of legal briefs or medical records with an AI detection filter. You offer huge cash rewards to whistle blowers, so that a disgruntled employee can rat out their bastard boss that's forcing everyone to illegally use AI. Apply massive fines and give half of whatever is collected to the person who blows the whistle.

    Are you a structural engineering company owner forcing your employees to use AI to engineer buildings? Now you have to worry about one of those employees, an employee who probably really dislikes using AI, ratting you out. And their whistleblower reward will be so large, they'll end up owning the company. They won't have to worry about being blacklisted from future employers, as they'll be getting enough money to retire.

    Don't look for technical solutions for the problem of AI abuse. Look for human solutions.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Should ban it giving finance advice as well. Conservatives and Neo-Liberals already want to give the economy over to Ai companies, what's stopping them from going full circle and making the Ai do all the trading as well?

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    [–] 11 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Engineering and design.

    You know that there are MBAs thinking right now they can get an LLM to design a mine, building or bridge for them.

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    [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    I understand the sentiment but I think this is too far of a pushback. Restricting access to information even though it may be inaccurate or misleading isn't the right answer. AI is a tool. I'd wager, force a prompt to specifically be visible whenever subjects break that. Essentially the cigerette equivelant "THIS PRODUCT KILLS YOU" but something like "AI RESPONSES TO MEDICAL INFORMATION SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS ACCURATE."

    I feel like this logic should of banned search engines since they could provide links to sites with misinformation.

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    [–] 10 points 2 months ago (18 children)

    I feel like finding and citing appropriate law cases would be a great way for AI to be used, especially because the bullshit legal-ese that surrounds everything in court cases is so spectacularly opaque and trivial that you have to pay out the nose just for someone to parse through all the bullshit... Like, lawyers shouldn't even be a thing you need unless it's for some really complicated case. The courtroom should be a place where an average citizen could speak for themselves.

    Also, as someone who studied medicine... Do you know how often doctors will take a patients history, step outside the exam room, and then google shit? I don't want to imply that they don't know what they're doing, like, you need to study medicine to know what to google, BUT... they still be googling shit. I think AI could be trained to ask the same patient history questions that a nurse asks. Then using the answers to those questions, then they can provide some feedback, with a big ol disclaimer that it's NOT to be taken seriously, and you should consult with a physician.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (14 children)

    When people say "AI" these days, they mean the LLM-derived generative AI such as ChatGPT, Google Gemini, Anthropic Claude, and Grok.

    These AI systems are not capable of finding authoritative search results. They are good at generating fluent, plausible, context-appropriate text. In legal and medical situations, that's the opposite of what you'd want.

    Do you know how often doctors will take a patients history, step outside the exam room, and then google shit?

    Think about how often the doctors land on some pseudo-science result. Now imagine that instead of a doctor it's a patient and instead of asking "could these be related" the patient is told "these are related".

    a big ol disclaimer that it’s NOT to be taken seriously

    This has worked very well for Fox News, which is not a news agency and is for entertainment purpose only. Also for dietary supplements, which are not medicine.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Why is Mamdani pictured here? He's the Mayor of NYC, he has no direct role in statewide legislation

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    [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    Add edibility of wild plants to the list please

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (12 children)

    Maybe I'm just ignorant about this, but it feels a bit "gatekeepy" to outlaw answering questions about the law itself. Like... so I can't use an LLM to help do taxes? Or if I'm served a confusing legal document, I have to pay an expensive attorney to understand the legalese? I can't even just get a rough idea from an LLM first?

    EDIT: Also I've literally had a professional accountant send me a ChatGPT conversation they had because they didn't know tax law well enough. I feel like if anything that should be outlawed. Professionals should actually have to know shit and know how to research primary sources.

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    [+] 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    "AI's" are fast, for sure, but they are no substitute for human intelligence and knowledge. Mostly a desperate cash grab, because they had no where else to go after cellphones.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Trying to save white collar jobs with obstructive law won’t have the effect they think it will.

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    [–] 6 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    I really think this is a bad idea these should really just be flagged, there's many situations where asking these questions in necessary and there's few if any other ways to get an answer

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Sorta agree. Maybe force them to have a very obvious sign that says AI is routinely wrong about these topics specifically and are not a source to consider reliable, and then also offer a helpline where one can get reasonable answers even if the answer is "unfortunately you need to seek expert opinion on this"

    But googling basic labor laws and simple healthcare tricks should be acceptable like stretches for wrist or knee pain, skin/hair care or what level of diarrhea is hospital worthy should be fine.

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    [–] 6 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    I love this kind of law because it's likely impossible for ai companies to comply.

    Could be there'll be some exemptions if the user employs workarounds, because at the moment it's pretty easy to get llms to tell you things they aren't supposed to.

    But if the laws are written right with actual penalties that may force the companies to create a product that's capable of having safety parameters - something llms don't currently seem capable of.

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    [–] 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)
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