My friend is an indie game developer and he once told me the typical refund rate, which I think was only a little lower than this. I don't think the game length is playing that large a role here, rather people use that refund policy as a way to try out a game (like a demo). Probably most of the people who refunded wouldn't have bought it in the first place without that refund policy, so he shouldn't really view this as "because of this policy I lost 55K sales".
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this one. The developer mentions the idea of having "expected time to complete" featured on the Steam Store page, and using that as an exception for 2 hour refund periods. But he also says he intended this Paddle game to be between 3-4 hours long. He was already aware of the problem of short games on Steam, made efforts to avoid it, and still missed the mark. By his own admission, his game would not meet his own recommended refund exception.
He also blames speed runners as a general player type that is causing this abuse, but the way he speaks of them sounds like he is implying that it is a concentrated community effort. Now, I haven't checked speed running community discussions or watched any YouTuber's talk about this game. I could imagine some not so well thought out "influencer" talking about this games short run time, and their audience turning it into a novel blind speed run challenge. That would hypothetically be some real shit head behavior, and the best course of action would be for speed running communities to take some moderation action against people who post their times but refund/remove the game from their libraries.
But I don't think Valve should change their refund policy over this. There are games with much shorter completion run times that don't get refunded. Including linear, narrative focused games comparable to Paddle Paddle Paddle. The developer even mentions that despite the large amount of refunds, this game got a much larger reception and net profit than other titles. Its an easy assumption to make that the social advertising of being a gimmicky speed run caused its financial success. 1/4th of the sales are refunded, but the total sales dwarf many of the countless indie titles that drown at launch.
Idk. I can think of 10 games in my library off the top of my head, that I completed in less than 2 hours but didn't feel like refunding. "They beat my game and still refunded it" isn't a valid problem to the no questions asked refund policy. People get refunds for things besides games for much less time and more money spent. Hell, it doesn't even seem like he has any negative consequences to these refunds! The game is at positive reviews, its not algorithmicly being suppressed over the refunds, he's making the same "ratio" of profit as he would without the refunds; what is the actual problem here???
Damn they all forgot the lesson to only fuck over the big corpos 😞
If a game I bought finished within 2 hours, I'd be the one feeling fucked over
It's $5 full price and advertised as typically 3-4 hours long. A big mac is over $6.
It's not like big macs are value for money either.
advertised as typically 3-4 hours
Yes, if a game advertised 20 hours of gameplay and finished in 10, wouldn't you feel they padded the estimate? That's the same percentage here.
Playtime can't be guaranteed, unless its a movie you have no control anyway. Its most likely just a suggestion. Did this game suggest a playtime that was vastly different to your experience?
Refunding a cheap (in price) indie game before the 2 hours play mark, AFTER finishing it is just a dick move. Also some games cannot be just measured by its playtime alone. Yes you can for yourself. But that would be like saying "oh I refund all 50 hours games, because I only consider a game to have a value over 60 hours playtime regardless its price".
Playtime can't be guaranteed
When a full third of your customers are refunding, that means half or more of them are finishing in below 2 hours. That means the devs estimate of 3-4 hours average playtime is bull, straight from their ass. That's not a mistake, that's false advertising.
Refunding a cheap (in price) indie game before the 2 hours play mark, AFTER finishing it is just a dick move.
Yeah? What if your reaction to reaching the ending in 90 minutes is 'That's it? What happened to the 4 hours I was promised'? Who's the dick in that case?
Yeah? What if your reaction to reaching the ending in 90 minutes is ‘That’s it? What happened to the 4 hours I was promised’? Who’s the dick in that case?
I can't find where the developer "promised" 4 hours of playtime. Also don't make the mistake that playtime does not equal to finish the game once. I ask again: I want to see the part where it did false promise. Searching the Steam page for words like "playtime" or "hours" didn't bring anything up.
Yeah mb, I got confused with the part the dev said he aimed for 3-4 hours playtime. And another commentor above said they advertised it as that.
Doesn't really change my point, what if you reach the end and your opinion is just 'that's it? I paid for that?'
Yes, that's it basically. If you think the game is too short, I think this does not give you right to refund. I'm not talking about the policy, but about what I think is right. As I said earlier, a value of a game shouldn't be judged by a single play through. It depends on the game off course, there might be cases when its appropriate, but I don't think there is a general rule we can dumb it down to certain amount of playtime. It depends on how fun it it was, what it provides other than playtime (like good story or weird game mechanics or whatever), game modes and challenges to replay in example. So playing the game once might give you 60 minutes and you see the ending scrolling, but that might not be the full picture. It might have wonderful graphics and a beautiful soundtrack that increases the value (for me). It depends on the price of the game too.
And no, I'm not a fan of this particular game here, never played it, and it does not look like for me. I'm not defending it because "being invested and take it personal" or something like that. Just clarifying my position here.
If you think the game is too short, I think this does not give you right to refund.
Seems like a basic difference of opinion then. I'm not paying that much for something that short. And it seems many players agree.
The game also seems like utter shlock, but that's another matter.
Yeah, I'm using them as an example of an underwhelming product that nevertheless has a market at its price, which millions of people regularly purchase knowing how shit it is because the price is tolerable for a guilty pleasure.
Measuring the time in percentages here doesn't make sense. A 1 hour difference on a 3 hour game can easily be chalked up to variance (even the estimate of 3-4 hours has a 1 hour range) but 10 hours off a 30 hour game is enormous. If we also made it $50 instead of $5 and argued for time per dollar as a value metric, sure, those would be equally misleading, but time per dollar is less important as the total cost decreases. Nobody would say a 2 cent movie ticket is half as worthwhile as a 1 cent ticket. They're both approximately as valuable as the experience itself because the cost is negligible.
underwhelming product that nevertheless has a market at its price
So if we agree that this game is an underwhelming product, why are we surprised it's getting refunded? Unlike the big mac where you probably know what you're getting in advance, this one is being misleading with spuriously inflated play time. Very spurious, since it seems likely half or more of players are finishing in less than 2 hours.
idk guy, the 2 hours isn't that long. if your game is only a few hours im not sure what your buisness plan was here, sorry.
We seriously need more games that are "only a few hours".
I fail to see why it's such a travesty to make a game that's sub 2 hours of playtime (for some people that get easily bored), for 5 euro, now on sale for 3 euro.
That refund window should be tied to the price tag.
Can't wait for this legitimate gripe to be the thing Valve uses to axe this policy!
/s in case this was somehow confusing
For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki
Rules: