this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
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We live on a farm. There is one residential house with a hub inside. This has two Ethernet cables running underground to an office building and a portacabin in separate locations, which then connects to little hubs which extend the WiFi into those buildings.

We now want more WiFi to reach another area even further away. This is so we can run CCTV cameras. If it’s not possible we will have to get SIM card cameras and pay monthly.

But, before we do, what else can we do? I don’t think we should really be running anymore Ethernet cables off the existing hub elsewhere as, could it overload it? It just seems a lot for one residential hub.

Could we get openreach to do something?

Any ideas PLEASE throw them my way!

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

The cameras still need power so you are running cable anyway POE is a great technology since it powers the camera AND gets the data with just one cord. Battery stuff works but it’s always cheaply built and overpriced.

In large commercial systems the router is just a router. Internally you have a large Gigabit switch often running fiber. So a TP-Link TL-SG 24 port all gigabit and POE is $220 USD on Amazon. A smaller 8 port switch with 4 POE ports is $66 USD. Ubiquiti makes much nicer IT-grade switches for a bit more money. These should be the backbone of your system.

Fiber is nice because it is immune to lightning and electrical issues going forward between switches and you can go to 10 Gigabits.

Ubiquiti’s Airfi stuff can use antennas to literally do gigabit WiFi over several miles. In Western states it’s common for wireless ISPs to use these for wireless backhaul networks. But no matter what cables are much more stable no matter how good this gets.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I would upgrade all links to fiber optics. Make your measurements and you can buy custom sizes or pre-done sizes (these are cheaper) of single mode fiber with connectors. Then get used HP or other reputable make switches and the adapters. It’s all plug and chug. Look for cables that you can directly bury without need for any conduit. If you need help in identifying all the equipment, let me know.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Running additional Ethernet cables will not overload anything. If you do not want to that , line of sight point to point WiFi works good. Especially in a rural areas without interference from other devices. We have good experience with Mikrotik. Reach out to them with specifics and they will recommend the appropriate devices

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Point-to-multipoint wifi is one option to achieve this, but without knowing more about the infrastructure, it's impossible to advise if it's suitable. You will need power at each "node" - so barns and outbuildings are great candidates for this (as are any private lampposts etc).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Ubuqity can do this. I have used their equipment to broadcast internet/LAN all over a farm to their outbuildings, and their fields for the data link in their farming equipment.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I'm in the States so I am not sure if these folks ship internationally or if there is a UK equivalent, but their equipment is for rural/farm setups.

https://ayrstone.com/www/

If this won't work, what you will need is a WiFi AP thats high power, long range and is rated for outdoor use.

As for overloading your hub with ethernet, as long as you have a good 1Gbps switch you should be fine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

It depends on what you mean by hub. I assume you mean some kind of ISP provided device? If so you're probably fine up to the number of ports it has. If you're out of ports you can buy a network switch, connect that to the 'hub', then connect more to the switch. Your biggest limitation will be internet speed but, depending on where you send that security camera footage, that may not be an issue at all.

TL;DR: Run the cable to the new place and install your camera. You'll be fine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

How much further away are we talking? Running a line shouldn't be an issue, but if it's more than 300ft you should be looking at running fiber instead.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Get wifi antennas. My buddy was beaming internet to his parents place 5km away with 300mbps speed. As long as there is straight shot sight line you can beam fast wifi across your property easily.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

A former customer of ours had directional antennae. They were flaky and tended to get hit by lightning.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

We get almost no lightning in the UK compared to the US - it's very rarely a serious consideration for things like ptp antennas.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

You can run lots of ethernet cables without a problem it doesn't dilute the existing outputs you can even add something called an ethernet switch to add more. They do external wifi access points you can stick on a pole outside to cover an area. It's best for speed to run those off an ethernet cable. You can power them through the same ethernet cable as well to simplify installation cabling. Its only when you want to run very long cables +300mtrs you might need alternatives.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

What distances are you talking about? A map with what you want to do would be helpful.

Additionally, what are you trying to accomplish with the cameras? Live monitoring and capture all the time?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

We plan on running ethernet/fiber (depending on the length of run and whatnot) to our shop/barn/etc from our house.

Ubiquity also has some awesome wireless options, but personally, I'd rather do wired.

In the field, we use cellular data (for RTK corrections and whatnot). It's really the only option.

The deciding factor on what to use is really just the distance. How far away are these buildings?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

One option is to run a cable between the locations, either Cat6 or Multimode Fiber if the location is further than 100m.

Another option is using a Wireless link. There are fixed wireless devices that have directed beams to reach out up to 10km distance between nodes.

Ubiquiti has a product called Nanobean that is quite popular and that you can use in this scenario.

In the Fiber or Wireless link option, it is assumed there are power outlets on both ends of the link. If power is only available on one end, then you could double down on Cat6, use PoE extenders to be able to run a Cat6 cable over 100m, and then have an PoE powered access point given enough power is left at the end of the cable run.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

As long at you are under 100metres , just run cables. Run the outdoor Cat6a variety, or lay regualr in conduit, Dont run just one, run two (One for now and one for later/if something breaks.)

You can buy other point to point wireless netwoking devices as suggested below, but these will all add more power use and complexity as they are a little specialised to get working well.

Cat6a will allow you many years of cheap and reliable service and will be cheper in the long run unless you've got some really difficult terrain to work with.

You could also run Multi Mode fibre optic cable up to 550m with 2 cheap swiches that have an SPF port at either end. This will cost a little more, but willgive you near unlimited expansion

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

the ISP provided hubs are fine, if you need more ports buy another little switch.

depends on how far the other place is.. best is to dig another trench and run some SM fiber cables out there.

or if there is a clear line of sight to install a p2p wireless bridge eg from tp-link, or ubiquities

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Point to point WiFi is low cost and works great as long as you have line of sight.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Point to point WiFi is low cost and works great as long as you have line of sight.

Exactly. And if you don't have line of sight, you can raises masts and put them up higher. Tight beam patterns will go long distances.

Then on the same mast you can install a 'wide' powered emitter- basically a narrow beam formed that only covers the open area. You'll still have 'dead' spots out there, but it'll be a lot less.

Sticking with 2.4ghz will help a lot too- more bendy than 5.4ghz. Specialized gear can go lower but now you're looking at insane prices.

So long as you have juice at each location you can have coverage, albeit with increased lag/hops, but it's totally doable.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ubiquity has some very useful devices that allow this to be managed easily. Otherwise I’d say run a duct for fibre

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

fiber is the long term best solution and not that expensive asside from the digging part. you need power there anyway too so i would put in the fibe along the electric lines is possible.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

That. Weybred Lakes in Cornwall do that for their lodges. And a place we went to early in the year in Lake District. Its remote but can just see a farm house in the distance and they have point to point in the garden area of the lodge.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Two options that come to mind are:

  1. outdoor wireless mesh, or
  2. wireless bridging.

In either case, these will need power.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Dish beam across to another AP

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

If it's just for CCTV, then look at using POE (power over ethernet) which will allow you to run just a single cable to each camera as it will do data and power. You will probably need a switch or router that provides POE, assuming your current one doesn't (extremely unlikely if it's a residential one, particularly from BT). Just check the distance you need to cover for compatibility.

I like Ubiquiti's stuff, and they have specific setups for POE switches, cameras, and recorders for CCTV and are pretty well regarded. You can continue to use your BT hub, just plug it in to the Ubiquiti setup, no issues with capacity or anything else. If you can't run a cable, they also have long range wireless bridges that might work for you, although you will need power at both ends (not needing power is why POE is so compelling if you can make it work).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Check out some Ubiquiti wireless gear. I would start there and see if anything will fit your needs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

It depends on distance. you won't overload anything with more ethernet connections, with an appropriate network switch you can effectively scale the number of ethernet connections forever.

ethernet distance however is an issue, your maximum is around 100 meters before things get complicated. If it's within 100 meters i'd reccomend a cable every time.

If it's further away. you'll want to set up a point to point wifi bridge something like this. Pretty straight forward and relatively inexpensive, point them at eachother. depending on distance and budget you can go up to and beyond 10KM with this method.

another alternative is a 4g router. that way you only need one sim card, connect all your cameras to that.

few different ways to skin this cat.

openreach are unlikely to help you with this if you already have a line in place.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I got myself a nice project a while back for a camera on a pole where there was no power. Got a 100w solar panel, two 12v/20wh batteries for marine vehicles, a solar controller, a 24v stepup for a POE switch to power camera the camera and shared the controllers output between the stepup and the mikrotik sxt 5. I then mounted everything, setup another sxt5 on the building, and voila!

Edit: i eventually added an additional cam

Second edit: heres a pic of the final product

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Line of sight wireless bridge. They have high gain directional antennae and run on POE. Look up Adalov wireless bridges. My 2km (smallest range unit) bridge works flawlessly through some trees over about 300ft.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Wireless Point-to-Point Links involve setting up two directional Wi-Fi antennas: one at your current network hub (residential house) and the other at the new location where you need Wi-Fi. It can cover long distances (several kilometers).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Depending on exactly what sort of coverage you need, you could get a number of outdoor wireless access points to cover an area and/or use pairs of directional antennas, connected to access points with removeable antennas/antenna connections, to create wireless links between locations. Some dish antenna setups can carry WiFi signals over a few kilometres.

A few CCTV cameras are unlikely to overload your hub (broadband router?) but there is something to be said for having routers handling routing (i.e. your broadband Internet connectivity) and switches to handle switching (providing cabled Ethernet connectivity). This also means that your cabled connectivity and any wireless access points connected to it don't need to change if you change your ISP and get a new hub/broadband router.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I will contact a company that does this because essentially you’re running a business and it tax deductible anyway

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

What’s your cellular signal like? I assume rather poor because it’s in the country.

Have you considered Starlink as a WAN source? Or is WAN sorted?

If WAN is fine and you just need to push traffic around site, Point to point or point to multipoint services are the best way. You’d need to consider things like PoE or midspan injectors for this to be viable of course so cable runs remain a topic to consider.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

This explained

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DkMQ3ynHcW8

He had some install videos too

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Ubiquiti long range AP’s and mesh units to extend coverage. Works really well

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

I don’t think we should really be running anymore Ethernet cables off the existing hub elsewhere as, could it overload it?

What does that mean?

Where do you think the Wifi would be connected to if not the same hub?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Mikrotik Wireless wire for point to point links. Just plug them in, point them at each other.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Mikrotik Wireless wire for point to point links. Just plug them in, point them at each other.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

Without looking at any equipment/kits first I'd suggest your viewership of videos from Cross Talk Solutions. I've included a few...

Some aspects that would come to mind:

  • Yes it's a farm which I'd expect to be mostly flat but what's the gradient/slope?
  • With respect to the above any obstacles around the buildings or along the line of sight?
  • If they are you may have to seek the tallest building/tower in your area that beams/bounces the network around... so does costs of equipment required for such distances & fees for placing your equipment on their property...
[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

The most reliable way to transit data (assuming you don't put a digger through it) would be fibre optic cable. I believe you can direct bury fibre optic cable with a piece of farm equipment, so might be something you can rent or borrow from a fellow farmer. Ethernet is not a great option because of distances and grounding.

Another option would be use a point-to-point wireless system. I believe UniFi sell these. They're not too expensive, but wouldn't ship anywhere near as much data as fibre.

Assuming you mean networking/Internet, then the job is done. Some switches on either end and you should be sorted. But if you actually mean WiFi, then using a wireless system would be best. Something like UniFi or TP-Link Omada would be good options.