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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by rimu@piefed.social to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

I recently discovered that some popular federated instances have been using LLM-assisted moderation tooling that evaluates whether someone has said something bannable. They do this by running a script/app that sends the user’s comment history to OpenAI with the question “analyze this content for evidence of specific political ideology sentiment. Also identify any related political ideology tropes“. (The italic bits are where I've redacted the ideology they're seeking).

OpenAI’s LLM (they’re using GPT-5.3-mini) then responds with something like:

image

and so on, hundreds of comments.

I have not named the instances or people involved, to give them time to consider the results of this discussion, make any corrective changes they want and disclose their practices at their own pace and in their own way. I have also redacted the evidence to avoid personal attacks and dogpiling. Let’s focus on the system, not the individuals involved. Today these instances and people are using it and maybe we’re ok with that because it’s being used by groups we agree with but what if people we strongly disagree with used it on their instances tomorrow?

The use and existence of this tooling raises a lot of other questions too.

What are the risks? Fedi moderators are often unsupervised, untrained volunteers and these are powerful tools.

What safeguards do we need?

Would asking a LLM “please evaluate this person’s political opinions” give different results than “find evidence we can use to ban them” (as used in the cases I’ve seen)?

What are our transparency expectations?

Is this acceptable and normal?

Should this tooling be disclosed? (it was not – should it have been?)

If you were given a choice, would you have opted out of it?

Can we opt out?

Are there GDPR implications? Privacy implications? Should these tools be described in a privacy policy?

Are private messages being scanned and sent to OpenAI?

How long should these assessments be retained and can we request to see it, or ask for it to be deleted?

Once the user’s comments are sent to OpenAI, is it used to train their models?

What will the effect be on our discourse and culture if people know they are being politically profiled?

Where are the lines between normal moderation assistance tools, political profiling and opaque 3rd-party data processing?

I hope that by chewing over these questions we can begin to establish some norms and expectations around this technology. The fediverse doesn’t have any centralized enforcement so we need discussions like this to develop an awareness of what people want in terms of disclosure, privacy, consent and acceptable use. Then people can make choices about which instances they join and which ones they interact with remotely.

And of course there are the other issues with LLMs relating to environmental sustainability, erosion of worker’s rights, increasing the cost of living and on and on. I can’t see PieFed adding any functionality like this anytime soon. But it’s happening out there anyway so now we need to talk about it.

What do you make of this?

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[-] forestbeasts@pawb.social 5 points 16 hours ago

Oh fucking YIKES.

Do NOT send our post history straight to OpenAI, that's just ... extremely gross.

Sure, it's "public", but that doesn't mean feeding it directly to the slop machine is okay.

-- Frost

[-] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

there is no AI moderation, no one is sending comments to OpenAI

It’s a python script that calls the lemmy/piefed api to grab comment histories. Calling it an “App” is quite a stretch. Luminous just likes pretty things, bless his cotton socks.

You are right about one thing, we will no doubt keep using the script to pull comment histories on the few occasions when we want a deep dive into someone’s profile.

For the record, we were never planning to use it as an automod or hook it to an LLM. You hallucinated that, ironically. That’s why we never announced it. It was nobody else’s business.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/25880065

Also the LLM was running locally nothing got sent to OpenAI

quite frankly it's shameful to leave this slanderous post up without even linking to the accused parties statement.

[-] runsmooth@kopitalk.net 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I think the use of AI or LLMs for the Fediverse is a fair topic of discussion. Instances are run by volunteers, and these instances are free to dictate how their communities are to be administered. These Instance Admins can determine the jurisdictions that they operate under, and the laws that they are subject to. I'd suggest then the use of "AI" or LLM products are a choice made by each Instance.

But, just as Instance admins have these powerful choices, I believe that end users should also be given notice that these products are expected to be used so they can decide to continue with their account or move. I also recall that when many "Redditors" decided to leave, they also made a lot of fuss about salting their posts so that their contents not be used as training material to develop a commercial LLM. I'd point out this was a time when Meta and others were found to be combing the internet, downloading pirated materials, and using these for training purposes.

In 2026, these LLMs have already taken these pirated materials and public social media posts. There are news articles of how failed start-ups are even selling their Slack and other work related chats as training materials as well. In time, perhaps these issues can be properly litigated in courts. But for social media Instances run by volunteers, resources are limited already. I don't think these Instances should be responsible for the privacy of the end users. Rather, good education in generating throw-away email addresses, strong passwords, and VPN use can give users real choices.

While there's an argument that posts should not have any expectation of privacy, that doesn't mean we don't collectively share an interest in the value of privacy - a human right. I don't believe users who sign up for accounts on the Fediverse and are asked for their email to set up an account, expect in turn that information to just be published to the world with full, open access without some kind of notice or choice to opt out, for example. Ultimately though, I believe the issue must be dealt with at the government level, and that means people getting pitted against professional lobbyists and politicians.

I want to also clarify that there will also be times when intervention is necessary. We're here to join together in community, and "AI" or LLM activity that ultimately attacks that objective should be a top issue. For example, I'm not sure anyone here would be comfortable with "AI" duplicating an Instance and impersonating the community members within it. Yet that did happen on Mastodon. I recall the community responding, making reports and complaints to ultimately get the instance taken down. Another example would be AI or LLM accounts that do not identify themselves as bots, and are here to post on the Fediverse to astroturf issues or manipulate discussion are clear threats to proper discussion.

But I don't want to digress too far from the original concern, which was how people feel about LLMs processing Fediverse posts, and related issues. Assuming we are not discussing materials that are already restricted or illegal, we cannot control what people choose to share on these platforms of themselves, and I don't suggest we even attempt or consider it. But we can try to control how much information these platforms retain about its users - and I suggest that should be as close to zero or nil as possible. In this way, even if an Instance admin faces terrible pressure from a state, the platform itself has as close to nothing additional to report or share besides the face value posts of an account.

I'd also want to point out that we all do some form of labelling or profiling as we go over posts or read. Is there a difference between what we do already, and what an LLM does to create an opinion to profile a collection of posts? Humans get it wrong all the time, as would any LLM for that matter. Computers are valued because they're good at copying and pasting information. What changed exactly if one person copy and pastes for free and for themselves, vs another who copy and pastes on behalf of a third party for a fee? I'm not really inviting philosophical discussion, this is mostly a question for myself. Whether the copy and paste procedure is done once by hand or thousands of times by computer, I'm still weighing the question.

I think it comes down to exploitation of asymmetric information and the appropriate use of the profits from this exploitation. But I suppose that's always been an evergreen issue.

[-] Auth@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

The instances doing this were awful before this and will continue to be so with or with it. Its not something i would ever want to see from my instance.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

GDPR-wise, this is the absolute nightmare scenario.

Data about the political orientation is defined as especially sensitive ("special category data"). When people just straight post their ideological leanings, that's one thing. But what's described here is profiling. All the available data relating to a person is analyzed by "automatic means" and used to assess their leanings. This then is used to discriminate against them. It doesn't get much worse.

This might be legal in very specific circumstances. EG non-profit religious or political organizations are allowed to police their members and associates to some degree. That would involve quite some extra paperwork. But it doesn't apply here anyway.

Apparently that is on top of ordinary GDPR violations. The processing is done by a third party (OpenAI) without the necessary paperwork. You remember that billion Euro fine that Meta got? That was because they processed data outside the EU, in the US. And that wasn't even "special" data.

You know how those cookie banners in the EU look like? That's for normal data. All the disclosure, all those settings are legally required. Some people on the Fediverse go apeshit over far smaller things.

This may also be a problem for other instances. Your instance sends all your data (except e-mail and IP address) to anyone in the world who asks, with no strings attached. That may be okay as long as users understand that that's exactly what they sign up for. Looking at comments here, it doesn't seem like that is universally understood. That's a problem. On top of that, we now have a situation where there are hints that the personal data is being abused.

[-] skisnow@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

LinkedIn's LLM-powered automation banned my account on a false positive a few months ago, and it took ages to get it sorted out and they treated me like shit the entire way through even after acknowledging that they'd made a mistake. Sadly it's extremely difficult to operate in my field without a LinkedIn account, because I would love to be able to delete it.

This shit is poison

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[-] sobchak@programming.dev 26 points 1 day ago

I'm mostly just surprised that a mod would pay for tokens to moderate. The Fediverse is radically public by design, so I don't have any expectation of privacy. I'd bet at least someone is gobbling up the entire Fediverse to train AI, since companies are so desperate for new human-generated data.

It was a local model.

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago

Their whole thing is that they're running local models on their own systems, so it is unlikely to be corporate at all.

Now, there is a portion of lemmy instances and piefed that did incorporate, and they seem to have it out for db0.

[-] sobchak@programming.dev 6 points 1 day ago

IDK, this post says "GPT-5.3-min" which is not an open-weight model AFAIK. Either way, everything is public on the Fediverse, so IDC very much. Specifically asking for political classification is a little bit weird though.

[-] comfy@lemmy.ml 3 points 17 hours ago

IDK, this post says “GPT-5.3-min” which is not an open-weight model AFAIK.

They claim it's not being used, it's really using a local model, which is inline with their anarchist ethos so I'm leaning towards believing that, and that the GPT reference is an in-joke. I do think it's unprofessional to write something like that, even as a joke, but it's not the first time I've seen unpaid mods make dumb mistakes like that.

Specifically asking for political classification is a little bit weird though.

Out of context, yes.

In context, dbzer0 is an explicitly anarchist instance - the users of the instance have shared political values, and their instance rules ban certain politics (such as fascism) - so it's a legitimate part of the moderators' job there to assess politics and ban any which break their rules. Their users don't want to see certain politics.

[-] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's asking for zionist posts, because that's what's most apparent about the user. That's what they got banned for, db0 is very clear about their "no zionist" policy so it's rather clear that samskara was gonna get banned from there no matter what.

Also the admins say it was a local model that they pirated or smth idk

[-] 7101334@lemmy.world 3 points 15 hours ago

I have to pick between siding with a Zionist and siding with AI users?

Nightmare scenario. Fine, AI users.

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[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Now, there is a portion of lemmy instances and piefed that did incorporate, and they seem to have it out for db0.

Corporations hating on anarchists? Wow I'm shocked.

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[-] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Lol it's dbzer0 isn't it.

But also, I don't really care. The fediverse is open by design, you don't even need an account to access the data. I don't like it but we can't really do anything against it.

[-] 7101334@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

I care because it impacts the environment to a substantial and unnecessary extent. Any instance using AI moderation should be defederated for that reason.

But personally idgaf about people seeing my data, I wouldn't put it on the internet otherwise. Yeah, morally-ethically that shouldn't be the world we live in, but you have to operate in your paradigm while endeavoring to change it. Still fine with whacking an instance for erring on the side of stupidity though.

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 2 points 22 hours ago

Even putting aside the distinction between "possible" and "ethical" when it comes to data harvesting and use - just because something is technically possible does not mean it is therefore OK to do - this is moderators using systems created by entities explicitly aligned with US fascism to do "ideology analysis".

If the point of the fediverse is to avoid centralised/corporate control and influence over our relationships, then this is completely antithetical to that goal.

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[-] Andy_R@feddit.uk 20 points 1 day ago

Is Rimu okay lately? He’s been acting so hostile.

I don't think so, then again he hasn't been okay for a while. Him making poor descisions about piefed and deleting users who are critical of him aren't a new thing. They're par for the course. People have criticized piefed for this for a while, but they've been dismissed as tankies or reactionaries. I admit I used to dismiss them as well. Not anymore though.

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this post was submitted on 04 May 2026
349 points (89.9% liked)

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