You would think that after the fiasco of Brexit Albertans would know better.
Albertans would still be subject to their own governments damaging economic policies even if they could divorce from the federal ones. Most of their economic problems are self inflicted. That will only get worse. It is clear that their Premier and cabinet and advisors are already on the payroll of American billionaires. How any Albertan thinks that will make life or income better for them is astonishing. They harken back to some good ol days that never existed, while falling for Koch brothers (or whomever) marketing their takeover. They wouldn't become the next Alaska, they would become the next Puerto Rico, if that lucky.
And like Quebec before them, they don't understand that the current provincial borders won't be the ones that would exist if they managed to secede.
Personally I'd be willing to work on a trade group: all the Albertans (and the few from BC, Sask, & Man) who want to secede could be swapped for an equal number of Americans who wanted to come North.
trade Alberta for Washington, Oregon, and California
And Minnesota! I'd much rather be Canadian
So, if Alberta reaches the promised land of glorious independence or whatever, how exactly do they plan on trading outside their borders without being taxed to oblivion by one of two much larger bordering nations any time we try to get resources in or out?
If you believe the APP's website they want to use the UN's 'Law of the Sea', but they also don't want to be a part of the UN cause they do not share values. So seemingly they think they can, they think they can.
Highly believable that a bunch of Albertans want to use Maritime law in a land locked province.
That convention does guarantee access to trade corridors for landlocked nations, though as the separatists do not want to join the UN I'd be interested in seeing how they think they'd benefit.
Even if they do join the UN. I just looked it up and transit states retain the right to ensure none of their interests are infringed upon. So basically AB will have even less leverage than they do now.
their borders
Teeny Tiny problem... The Government of Alberta doesn't own the land that comprises Alberta. That belongs to the federal government as per multiple treaties with the First Nations.
So like, if the Albertan government leaves Canada they'll probably be reduced to the municipal boundaries of Edmonton or something ridiculous.
What non Albertans need to understand is that "the separatists" in Alberta are two different groups. There are a significant number of Albertans who are upset with the way Alberta has been milked as a cash cow for decades without the corresponding political power like the populous provinces out east. Mostly they want to express their displeasure and if that means some sabre rattling and threats of separation thats fine. It works for Quebec and they just want to follow the same playbook. They would be the mild separatists who may or may not see the value in having Alberta be an independent state within Canada, but they are still a minority.
Then there are the radical separatists who believe that Alberta should separate and join the US. That is a VERY small group of people. If anything Albertans are fiercely independent, with an "I can do it myself" attitude and the last thing the vast majority wants is to jump out of a stable democracy into the shit show that exists down south.
So when you say 'separatists' you have to be clear who you are talking about. MOST of us want a more fair deal for Alberta but we're not pro US and particularly not pro Trump.
It works for Quebec and they just want to follow the same playbook
Us Québécois are linguistically, culturally, and ethnically separate from the rest of Canada. Alberta is just culturally “pessimistic”, so it’ll never work for them to become independent. They’ll trip over their own dicks when it comes down to who will lead them amongst the conservatives. If the Middle East is any precedent, good luck pitting a jungle of conservative groups against each other for control. They can’t function without unity, which the Albertans lack on a fundamental level. They’re just going to remain the dicks who live out west and complain about social programs in QC and BC.
That's probably fair when talking about the electorate broadly, but also leaves out the powerful special interests contributing to shaping and manipulating the movement, and which have much more direct and influential access to provincial government than your average Jane or Joe. Those interests, and the stakeholders to which they're most responsive, need to be included as part of any discussion of how this movement is developing.
I have MAGA family in Alberta. They don't want to join the USA but they're pro pro-trump politicians.
I love em but they're rather ignorant and because of the religion they don't care about objective truth beyond their own confirmation bias.
So in that regard I don't place a lot of value on the distinction between hardcore and mediocre separatists. IMO the difference comes down to incentives and who's getting kick backs for saying shit.
I think, if you don't like where you live, you should move, but you can't take your land with you. I also think, if you don't care about separation but push the agenda just to entangle yourself with powerful cabals above and beyond your reach, should be a special kind of treason.
Any Albertan that wants to be "independent"/ be annexed by the USA can look forward to inheriting a $150k CDN per capita debt.
While a critic might argue that’s just swapping one federal government for another, Lorusso argues that’s not the case in the US, where states have powers that Canadian provinces do not.
States don't have the power to secede, so it's a hotel california situation. Health care is not under control of any state. $100k in extra debt per person = $4000+/year in interest. $3000/year per capita military spending, about to increase to $5000/year. Higher interest rates and home building costs, including O&G drilling costs due to tariffs on Canada.
If negotiating secession with Canada, Crown land should stay with Canada or at least form a land bridge within Canada. Canadian policies would charge more for transporting Alberta exports, and reduce their energy use. Alberta secession economic optimism is based on going all in on dead ender energy without any real friends. Don't expect keys to the store open arms invitation to being 51st state, either.
I could care less if a bunch of rednecks want to leave Canada, the problem is it immediately becomes part of the US. They are not saying that part loudly enough.
LOL, the US is not going to create another state, it's too political. Best the USA can do is create another territory, similar to Puetro Rico. Under US law for territories, "fundamental rights apply as a matter of law, but other constitutional rights are not available", meaning that the US gets to determine what laws apply and what laws don't. Being a legal backwater means no one will be directly investing into Alberta but into the American companies that can legal do whatever they please in the territory.
I meant territory. There’s no way they allow voting.
In 2021, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation pegged Albertans’ contribution to equalization as $650 per capita.
Lol. Lmao even.
Let's risk a very unclear future, sold to us by utopian libertarians over $650 per person.
I'm Albertan. I'm also quite Liberal, so kind of rare in these parts.
Anyway, I just can't wrap my head around the logic of the separatist have. Cut off ALL federal programs. Make your own programs, which is more than likely going to be blindingly more expensive due inefficiencies in starting from scratch. Cut all income tax (are you stupid?). Institute PST, something that is political sepukku in Alberta. Oh. And don't forget to base your economy on a marginal product, with no access to foreign markets, whose commodity prices are controlled by a cartel.
Get the fuck out, and come back to me with some valid logic
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