looks like an amazing project to support
https://codeberg.org/NerdNextDoor/vim
https://mastodon.social/@mrmasterkeyboard/116192873098653079
Why do you say it's an amazing project? Looks to me like someone copied vim, and according to the commits did nothing useful other than changing some text in a few files. The author's comments are all about coming up with a cool name for it, and what "cool" new features to add. I don't see any plan on actually making this a viable competing project. I don't see the author having much credentials in leading a project of this caliber either.
Before anyone misunderstands my comment, yes anyone not liking AI should stop using vim, I very much agree. And there are two viable ways forward:
This project is not one of them.
Where is the author's plan to tackle the 1600 issues that vim has open? How do they address the fact that vim has hundreds of commits each month, and literally had 68 contributors in just the last month? In the past month they closed 66 issues with vim. Half of vim's codebase is written in vimscript, and the other half in C. The new lead maintainer, I quote: "thankfully i know some C, but not vimscript". They know some C and no vimscript? So how do they plan to develop this project?!
Another quote: "removing old targets, stripping away graphical stuff (who uses this in graphical mode anyways? everyone uses it in the CLI...", and they already plan to drop Windows support. Already ignoring user's needs and removing functionality. Now, they are perfectly entitled to do whatever in their fork. But how is it a viable competitor to vim in any way?
Even assuming the worst case scenario on what damage AI can do to the progress of vim's development, who can seriously suggest that 1 person who doesn't even know the relevant programming langagues can make a better project than hundreds of experienced contributors that are doing it for years, AI or not?
And again, all the power to them, they can have some fun with their fork. But it's ridicoulus to suggest it as an alternative. Two years from now, vim will have fixed ~1500 issues at the current rate. And will have a bunch of new ones due to AI. Meanwhile this project will be dead, and the latest version will have 1500 unfixed issues that are all fixed in vim.
Taking a stance again AI in vim? Do it, campaign for it, talk to the maintainers, effect change, review PRs and comment about the AI mistakes you see, submit bug reports for bugs caused by AI and make a case for forbidding it's use. You have my full support. This fork? It's obviously going nowhere, it's a waste of effort that could be used to actually stop AI.
Yeah. You may as well just download a release tagged before he AI stuff is added.
Forking open source code is never a waste of effort. That's literally the reason why open/libre source exists, to have work all done in the open and if some people fundamentally disagree with the work being done, they can start a new workstream.
Of course they can, and I underline that in my comment several times, that this person is free to do it, good for them. I don't disagree with that at all. I'm sure they will learn a lot and that's great.
And everyone else is free to evaluate the prospects and realities of that fork.
Yes, a Spite Fork. Those are always well maintained, drama free and stable open souce communities
Wait, what the fuck? vim has LLM shit in it now?!?
As far as I understand, they are allowing usage of LLM for developing on vim, aka adding features to the editor.
...motherfucker… -_- The only users I block are agentics.
Well, TIL. I’ll have to be more vigilant going forward. God, this era of tech fucking sucks.
Probably a good time to consider helix or ki over vim
Does this mean emacs won?
Yes
😭 -- damn, time to try emacs again...
Wait, so because vim is allowing code written with AI we are switching to a random fork? The mental gymnastics here are insane once again. Is someone assuming that the vim maintainers are gonna do agentic requests? How is this project gonna handle upstream changes into their own main? Cherry-picking only "confirmed human-only" commits? Decisions like that out of spite, with zero thoughts and just out of principle do not help against slop. You're just adding human slop to the AI slop.
I'm sad I hate to scroll this far to see a sane take. Bad code is bad, AI accelerating the destruction of the planet is bad, but experienced maintainers using the tools that exist is not bad, and trying to fork a project like Vim because of that is insane. Power to them if they actively maintain it, but I don't see that in the cards.
Wait, so because vim is allowing code written with AI we are switching to a random fork? The mental gymnastics here are insane once again.
What Lemmy community did you think you were in?
One where we critically discuss issues with and around AI, but it seems we're just chanting "AI bad" in a circlejerk.
Why can’t projects adding AI just fork a new project with AI?? Call it vimai or something and let people choose it if they want it. Stop ruining things
Bro how am I gonna have time to go party with babes if I’m stuck at home coding this non-ai version bro the future is now man bro dude whoa
Absolutely against AI coded garbage but trusting this person to pick up something as important as vim is also crazy. I’ll swap to another editor that has been tested and is a proven solution. Focus your knee jerk reactions so you don’t end up in another problem.
Wait what? Vim has AI now? Jfc
I think they’re saying before developers started using AI to write the code, not that there are ai features in vim.
slop code in vim? really?? wtf
They call it... Slim.
I can't believe ai slop is in vim of all things, also there aren't any ai slop code in nano btw
Any idea if Neovim is slop coded too?
That's why I use vs code. Definitely no vibe code in there lol There is no escape from micro plastics or AI it seems
Lol, lmao even
Better make an AI free fork of linux too then.
Can't have all those fancy 7.0 changes in my kernel because some dev used AI to check his code formatting before submitting a PR. I'll stick with my outdated fork thank you very much. Upstream fix for blatant CVE but the fix includes an AI comment? Nooooo thank you.
I mean its not like there's a reject button for pull requests or anything. Anyone could just submit AI slop and we'd never know. Not even from the blatantly failing CI tests.
Didn't Torvald's already chew people out for committing vibe-coded crap? At least I can rest assured the Linux Kernel doesn't have dysfunctional generated code in it.
I think actually on the programming side, we’re in a fairly good spot. I really think that AI will be a tool and it will make people more productive. I think that vibe coding is great for getting into programming. I think it’s gonna be a horrible thing to maintain. So I don’t think programmers go away. You still want to have the people who know how to maintain the end result. I’m a huge believer in AI. I’m not a huge believer in the things going on around AI. I find the marketing and the market to be sick and twisted, and there is going to be a crash, and it’s gonna be ugly.
Linus Torvalds
Vibe-coding =/= actual coding. He chewed out someone for committing code that was simply churned out by an AI without checking if it's actually functional code.
Lemme try find his email...
100% agree, but does your average Lemmy user know the difference between vibe coding vs actual coding using some AI tool? Is vim being vibe coded or are the maintainers just using some AI tools?
IMPORTANT!!!
Your browser (Firefox and chrome) both have ai code in it! Even using librewolf there's still AI generated code!!!!
Your operating system KERNEL allows ai generated commits! Time to switch from Linux.
this is why nano is superior
What a strange way to spell emacs
emacs is a fantastic operating system, it just lacks a good editor.
I believe you mean helix
I'm using Helix for some months now -- I haven't checked the repo for slop, but if it's still good then I do recommend it as an alternative.
Onward with the Butlerian Jihad! Down with vibecoding!
"We did it, Patrick! We made a technological breakthrough!"
A place for all those who loathe AI to discuss things, post articles, and ridicule the AI hype. Proud supporter of working people. And proud booer of SXSW 2024.
AI, in this case, refers to LLMs, GPT technology, and anything listed as "AI" meant to increase market valuations.