I can't tell if this is supposed to be a shitpost, rage bait, or just indoctrinated virtue signaling. I'd make some popcorn, but it would outlast this post.
Just out of curiosity, you mentioned “this world - filled with wars and chaos” and also your hope that things get better: do you do something to work towards things getting better or will this be handled by God?
We should work to make things better- Jesus commanded us. However, this work we do is just a painkiller. It won't fix things. It won't fix human nature or sin. Everyday I try and do my part to make life better for those around me. But I know it's temporary. And that's okay. We all need temporary joys to cling to until He comes again.
Hey! So, I should be asleep right now, so I might not respond right away, but I'm an atheist and would be more than happy to have a real conversation about this, either here openly or in DMs. Feel free, anyone, to reply to this post or DM me if you'd like to talk.
yay for science and observation. i hope this goes better for you than the last conversation i had about it did for me.
Thank you for the encouragement. :)
looks around at the horrors of gods creation
find comfort in the fact that he'll be responsible for your death too
Absolutely normal, not psychotic behavior
I recall reading about the phenomena of people believing in the "shadowy cabal secretly in control of everything" like the Illuminati because deep down, the idea that something in control, even if evil, was preferable to the knowledge that there was nothing in control - things just happen, almost at random.
I do see a bit of this leaking through what you've said here in the uses of "chaos," "certainty," and "comfort" in your statements. To be clear, I don't really care if your faith is what you use to shield yourself from the uncertainty of existence - everyone has their own coping mechanisms - but I figured I'd make note of it.
Now, I do take issue with your other claim - who said there is no hope of things getting better? If it is just down to us to dictate things, we have been presented a problem, and I'm not inclined to believe humanity has run into a whole lot of problems we couldn't solve. We've persisted for thousands of years - I wouldn't count us out just yet.
Of course, if it is NOT up to us, and it is all dictated by God, then why should we simply give up and assume things will never get better? Is there somewhere God has dictated that it cannot be so? What actual evidence do we have, both theologically and scientifically, that things have no hope of getting better (particularly as much of our advancement flies in the face of such an assertion)?
If God put us here with no plan, then it is up to us to make the world better, and if God put us here with a plan, then it is a question of free will, (and I'm inclined to operate under the idea that we possess such a thing) then it is up to us to find out the path to things getting better. As the saying goes: "God helps those who help themselves."
In short, I can live in this world because I believe it can be made better, without the need for divine intervention, and because I cannot believe that a world filled with so many wonderful things is not worth trying to improve/save.
So humans are just cruel for the hell of it? Not much more comforting.
"God helps those who helps themselves" isn't rooted in Christian doctrine.
God is Love. We can feel love. We make things better for those we love, but it's only easing the pain temporarily like a painkiller, not the solution.
Romans 8:18-25
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
We are suffering. Prophecy in revelation shows thing's will get worse. Putin has the nukes. They're going to be let off at somepoint.
We are suffering. Prophecy in revelation shows thing's will get worse. Putin has the nukes. They're going to be let off at somepoint.
Then my question is: why were we created? Was it just to experience suffering? Why would a benevolent god decide "yeah, they need to suffer for awhile and then they get to be happy?" And before you comment something about it being necessary for some purpose of being saved or somesuch, again, why would that be necessary? Do we fundamentally lack something that is a needed prerequisite to experience some kind of end goal on God can perceive? If that is so, why not simply create us with that prerequisite, since an all-powerful being would certainly be able to do so?
The "prophecy in revelation" you describe further makes me question the purpose of things. If God is all-powerful, why have the worsening? Are we simply playthings for a bored and capricious divine being to torment so we behave in the afterlife he controls?
For that matter, what right does any being have to my worship and admiration? If I am supposedly created by God, then I was made in such a way as to be capable of demanding a reason for him to be the object of my worship.
So humans are just cruel for the hell of it? Not much more comforting.
I mean, is that so much worse than knowing an all-powerful being that you are ruled by created cruelty? Either god created everything or he didn't - with the understanding that if there is something he did not create, he is not all powerful.
I think it is much easier to accept that people are both capable of incredible evil and incredible good. Humans are cruel just for the hell of it has an obvious other side: humans are kind just for the hell of it too.
As Christians, we have assurance, certainty and comfort in that Jesus is coming back to judge the world, destroy all the wicked and bring us to eternal life. Atheists don’t have that.
Okay?
So?
It's up to us to make this world better for us. No-one is going to save us or pat us on the shoulder for trying if we don't.
Even worse, some even prefer to insult this God.
What do you mean? Just being rude about your belief system?
I don’t know how theists do it. How do you live in this world - filled with wars and chaos - believing that an omnipotent being is not only overseeing it all, but permitting it to happen? And the same being is your only hope for redemption and getting things better! As atheists, we don’t need to believe in a god that is a juxtaposition of the creator of everything in this world including that which is wrong, and also our only hope.
Your assurance, certainty, and comfort is that the same god that created the wickedness will bring you to eternal life. Don’t want to spend eternity with such a being?
God is not the author of evil. God permits it to happen because He is patient. If God would stop permitting evil, it'll result in wiping every human off the earth, and not giving them a chance to repent. Our days are numbered. God does deal with evil.
God is omnipotent. He is the creator of all things.
So god created evil. God also has the power to destroy evil without destroying every human - god is omnipotent.
I would be so depressed if I believed in the doomsday death cults!
What makes you do sure that, if there is a god, he's your Christian one? If you had been born in a different country or time, you might be a Buddhist, a Muslim or even a follower of Odin.
In addition, the thought of living forever - for all eternity, billions and billions of years - is my personal definition of hell.
"...assurance, certainty and comfort..."
Sorry, this is delusion.
And who said there's no hope?
The atheists said.
John "strawman" atheist said it?
The Atheistic belief that when you die, there's nothing. So if you suffer in this life, there's no justice. No reprieve. No hope.
Things have value whether they last forever or not. Don't buy into the lie that what happens here doesn't matter.
I don't see how they do
Is a song that you might hear at a concert of less value because you may never hear it again?
You are straw manning again. Death being the end makes zero difference as far as hope and justice go. Arguably it drives you further to accomplish those in life rather than just rolling over and waiting for some being to turn off your lights.
Beta Ray Bill says it best
Discussion about Christianity by Christians and those who are curious.
Rule #1. Anti-Christian and anti-Bible statements will not be tolerated. Constructive criticism of Christianity is OK, however.
Rule #1.1. The measure for what is considered Christian, as has been the case in the faith since the earliest days, will be the faith proclaimed in the Nicene Creed.