Let me guess... You have an Nvidia card.
Guilty as charged
So you are living in an illusion of choice, while your options are obviously determined by the big corpo that you relied on for getting that card
(Saying that, I got an NVIDIA card like a dumbass too)
....more like a gifted old laptop, but yeah.
My 16G RTX-3080 Mobile works well with Niri
I've found it varies from compositor to compositor:
- Plasma? Mid on Nvidia
- Constantly I have issues and I can't even solve them myself
- I have plasma working on Ubuntu Studio on a laptop I use for music making which has some Nvidia card, and that works fine, but not on my main Arch install
- GNOME? Works okay until you want to do something with portals like screen recording
- Even if I use a different portal, GNOME overrides it.
- Hyprland? Works amazing EXCEPT for random tiny issues
- Also I had to do a lot of tweaking
- Every now and then some program will not start or something
- But generally pretty good
- Sway? Garbo support
- Nvidia may not even boot. Lots of tweaking. Lots of issues
- Cosmic? For wayland - solid
- For everything else... it needs a little work still
- I also tried Cosmic Shell + Niri, and it just kinda didn't work in some ways like theming, but Wayland worked great.
- Also performance with multi-displays is kinda poor, or at least it was when I tried it.
- But Niri? Perfect
- Absolutely FLAWLESS Wayland. EVERYTHING works
- And now that I have DMS there's so much done for me. It's really a great system
Since I love the scrolling aspect of Niri as well, it works out well that it has the best Wayland support. 10/10 project. I love it
When I was on X11 still I was primarily an i3 user, and the transition to Hyprland and Niri has been generally positive
But yeah, I've worked with Nvidia on Linux for several years now on multiple machines. I'm finally throwing in the towel whenever I buy a new PC. AMD all the way. It's just better on Linux, even on X11
Protip: People who have iGPU + nvidia can just set the iGPU as main GPU on the BIOS and offload 3D programs to the nvidia via prime-run like they would on a laptop.
That's my setup.
Wayland is a sports car - modern, tailor made for performance. X is like a '99 Civic that's had the seatbelts stripped out and the airbags replaced with cameras that let all the other cars on the road see you naked.
It's fine to prefer X, but the older it gets the more people are going to roll their eyes at you. XWayland is fine for random old stuff, but there is zero reason X should be running your whole display these days.
Inb4 someone mentions network transparency that gimps the rest of the system or some 5000 year old app that needs to sniff events sent to every other program.
And the network transparency argument is long gone. While you can indeed network windows over the wire, most toolkits use client side rendering/decorations. So you're just sending bloated pixmaps across the wire when things like RDP , VNC, etc deal better with compression, damage to the window, etc. And anything relying or accelerated with DRI3 is just NOT network transparent.
Most modern toolkits have moved past X11 because the X protocol was severely lacking, and there wasn't a good way as a committee to modify the protocol in an unified manner. I mean look at the entire moving Earth that it took for XFixes and Damage extensions. Toolkits wanted deep access to the underlying hardware and so they would go out of their way to work around X, because it just could not keep up.
Agreed. I was an early Wayland convert because once upon a time I started writing a WM and taking an interest in X internals... And then my face melted off like I'd opened the Ark of the Covenant.
Things are so much simpler now.
What's it with the Wayland hate?
X did a great job for decades but it's old, it never was designed for modern day requirements, let it retire gracefully instead of dumping on it's replacement, maybe?
I understand there are some apps that still require X, those at some point will be / should be / have to be updated, but I don't see that as a reason not to want to move forward to something better
The issue with wayland is that both the process and the base mechanisms had significqnt flaws, that made it take a long time to get things working. In all fairness, the core team uad a valiant effort for a dwcade, hampered by unresponsive complainers, and late-to-the-party suggestions.
Fyi: I am an early WL adopter, but not on any of the major DEs.
I honestly don’t know where people are getting these Wayland issues. I’m on EndeavorOS with an RTX 3080ti and multiple monitors and it has worked flawlessly for ~2 years now.
There's probably a lot of people on 'stable' distros who are still running Wayland code from a couple of years ago and hitting bugs that have been fixed already.
Wayland is overall just better. I know there are plenty of apps that keep people on X11 just because they don't properly support/work on Wayland yet, but other than that I'm not sure why you would want to stay on X11.
The software you use working correctly is kind of a big deal, though.
Wayland is like how windows people say Linux is.
It works and is Incredible, but on X11 things just work.
I've only ever really had issues with X11 to be fair. Since DEs started fully supporting Wayland I was able to finally switch over to Linux full time and it feel better than Windows in every regard
tbf to this thread, wayland wasn't really viable until 2023.
I made an existing comment on this that people didn't like because I pointed out that most of Wayland's "modern upgrades" like VRR, HDR, etc were unimplemented or unfinished for years. Even HDR is still "beta" on KDE iirc.
People also like to pretend the triple buffer wasn't a can of worms for many users for a very long time (and still is on low power devices).
Even HDR is still “beta” on KDE iirc.
That's a weird comparison because HDR is never going to happen on X.org (nor probably in the X11 protocol or clients). Wayland is being actively developed and the developers took it from something that can be made to work with some effort and some concessions to something that will reliably work in most cases. The year isn't 1987 -- software isn't being written by nerds for nerds who can tinker and fix issues or add new features as a patchwork of unmaintainable code.
i ran arch with 2 monitors with different refresh rates on a rtx2060, idk why everyone's complaining. my screenshare issues were my fault or i didn't update vesktop which i can't fault due to it being like a "pirate" client for discord.
so what's everyone's issue with wayland?
KDE on Wayland has only very recently started to become workable for me, before that it was utter crap as I switch between home and office with my laptop, with varying display setups. In that case you got stuff like screen positions not being remembered and applications consistently starting off screen, requiring gymnastics to coax them onto a display.
And regularly it would crap out and not show output to one of the displays, if you opened up display manager you'd see the displays not touching and a big red error telling you that gaps betweens displays aren't supported. Well here's a brilliant idea, how about not automatically putting a gap between them in that case?
As I said, last few months it works better (although I still encounter some issues from time to time that I never had on X11). But the whole Wayland protocol had such a rough start, with issues encountered often being downplayed by parts of the community because "it's better and we don't want to hear otherwise", that I simply cannot feel any love for it anymore. There was too much basic stuff that took too long to support, while people were shouting "but HDR!", "better code!". I don't fucking care, I just want to be able to work and for too long that required X11.
Edit: some typo's and improved readability.
I honestly haven't noticed a different except Wayland feeling a bit faster.
You'll only see when you open your xeyes.
So I recently updated pop from 22.04 to 24.04. The only real headache I've had is running games through proton. Games now start in windows, which might not even show up at all until I super + F11 to full screen it. The mouse gets stuck in either a corner or the middle, sometimes the cursor works in the menus but stops working on the game itself. Gamescope can fix some of these issues, but alt-tabbing is always an adventure if it breaks the game or not.
An annoying thing is it is very hard to figure out where an issue lies. Is it wayland, is it Cosmic, is it gamescope, or proton? Any tips or tricks people might have would be appreciated.
It's a shame, because I want to like Wayland. i don't know what magic system 76 worked in x11 but the only issue I had before was some tearing when moving windows around. 2 monitors of different resolution and framerate with nvidia.
I really want to like Wayland since it seems to be the future, but I can’t when my computer keeps crashing from just using it.
I’m still new to learning the difference between Wayland and x11. What are some of the features people like between the two of them?
Wayland provides a simplified, streamlined pipeline for graphics. Lower latency, higher frame rates, less overhead. X is straight out of the late 80s and 90s. Modern X has been cobbled together to work surprisingly well. But that old architecture is what is holding it back today.
I wish Wayland would do basic shit like save my window positions for multi-screens. I hate having to set that up every time I reboot.
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