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Meta: disallow AI-gen posts? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 month ago by felixwhynot@lemmy.world to c/music@lemmy.world

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I noticed that AI posts tend to get reported so I figured maybe we just make them officially disallowed.

Agree/disagree? Post and tell us why!

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[-] nfms@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

I think this might be relevant here
https://youtu.be/U8dcFhF0Dlk

I'm not a creator but I spent a big part of my life surround by people who played music, some for a living.
Nowadays I listen to music from different styles and origins. I have also switched to online human curated radios and my own library.
There are some good YT channels that provide live performances of artists that I think I'll never get to see live, and I truly appreciate that, but I have never felt the same as to when I listen to live music. That sense of community is there. It can be 50 or 20.000 people and I can't explain it but I know it's there.

[-] felixwhynot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

So… I think you are voting to ban AI content here?

[-] dmajorduckie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 107 points 1 month ago

Agree on banning AI. Music is written, not generated.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Edit: generative sequences have been a thing for a long time, this new type of generative music muddies the terminology.

I have had to grapple with the wording myself.

[-] dmajorduckie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 month ago

That's a good point; I'll have to clarify my intent better.

[-] etherphon@lemmy.world 76 points 1 month ago

Music has been one of the most powerful tools for human expression since the dawn of time. Ban.

[-] drdiddlybadger@pawb.social 62 points 1 month ago

Generated stuff is a waste of bandwidth and storage space. Ban ban ban

[-] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 59 points 1 month ago

Agree. Clanker punks fuck off.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago

I may have to record a cover.

[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 44 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ban ai bullshit

[-] TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 1 month ago

I won't listen to AI generated music. It doesn't belong anywhere, in my not so humble opinion.

[-] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 36 points 1 month ago

Allow AI posts if they are one of the following :

something interesting that can't be achieved through traditional means
something that is created in direct lineage of the programmer's work (eg : someone builds a specific AI based system to actually make music in a novel way, like, idk, taking in barcodes and generating music based on the data in the barcode)
something that is made through a custom workflow that took effort on the technician's part.
Anything that is procedurally generated as part of a semi-determenistic system (eg : sheep in minecraft pressing buttons by accident , sound of twitter)

Technically, you might need to ban the song "skullgrid" since it was composed using procedural generation software. But, it was composed that way, but then recorded by metal musicians. https://beholdthearctopus.bandcamp.com/track/skullgrid

Obviously, yes, ban slop AI stuff that's "here's enter sandman regge style" , here's my "smoky blues space album" that's just them putting the title into suno AI.

There are also people that worked on this kind of stuff before the AI ... mainstreamisation? Like Dadabots , who worked with the musicians and with their permission and everything. I don't want that kind of stuff to be banned. https://dadabots.bandcamp.com/album/coditany-of-timeness is from 2017 and it would be a shame to lump it in with everything else.

https://github.com/MeltwaterArchive/Sound-of-Twitter ... which is currently down, or deleted or fucking whatever.

Basically : I want to see experimental works that were made using programming and data re-interpretation. I don't want to see "I put farts through AI and here's the generic output".

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I feel like you're making valid points for interesting use of the technology. The problem is that only accounts for such a small percentage of AI output, that it is impossible to moderate for. It takes someone very skilled with the tech to be able to achieve what you are describing. I also don't think anyone is going to nitpick over someone performing a song written by AI as the artists performance is the human element we identify with.

Ban AI here and there can be another community for that kind of content.

[-] Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip 14 points 1 month ago

I disagree, it's not that hard to moderate. Lemmy is not a legal system, if a mod mistake happens no one gets hurt. Appeals are easy, and you can specify in the rules that AI content must come with a disclaimer and description of why its OK if it wants to stay, otherwise it gets banned with everything else AI.

For the 0.1% "OK" AI songs mods just have to stop and read a sentence description, its not an overwhelming burden for something that maybe comes through once a month.

[-] BarbedDentalFloss@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago

I agree that we should start with a ban all AI content. But we could easily make exceptions for actual effortposts like those listed in the parent comment. It's not a huge leap. AI slop? Banned. Novelty from someone who used a tool that included AI? Well its not really slop, so don't ban it.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

The problem is that only accounts for such a small percentage of AI output

Ban AI here and there can be another community for that kind of content.

If it's rare, then there won't be enough of it to sustain another community. An easy way to moderate for this could be to just ban outputs of the most popular, easy to use tools like Suno, and ask for an explanation of the process to be provided.

[-] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

That assumes the majority of submissions would be from users that are prompting themselves instead of "hey I found this and wanted to share" posts.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

It doesn't have to, that could be disallowed (or at least require a link back to the artist who explains their methods). Also, a ban on generative AI would also apply to use of machine learning that doesn't involve text prompts, so this isn't just about prompt derived music.

[-] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The problem is that only accounts for such a small percentage of AI output, that it is impossible to moderate for.

Why? The moderators are human, yeah, they might make some mistakes, but I think communicating these basic guidelines to posters to discourage slop AI use, and seeing occasional experimental AI use is feasible. Especially if you put in "if you are going to post AIs, please explain the reason why it fits into an acceptable criteria" , and ban the rest of the slop posts.

besides, the stuff I'm talking about ends up making niche, experimental music that is hardly going to blow up and take lemmy by storm. You know what it sounds like when you put sheep in a pen and have them press buttons? Random. You know what it sounds like when you interpret the messy data of realtime twitter? Random. It gets old quick, but it's a fun little thing that some people will enjoy for a bit, and take home something to think about.

My view is that it will go down as well as posting other experimental work; five upvotes, 2 downvotes, off the main page by sunset. I'll even put my money where my mouth is, I'll post something (non ai) experimental now and see how well it does.

EDIT : Why did the experimental piece get more upvotes than a more regular metal song?? I don't know what to take away from this.

https://lemmy.world/post/40877878?scrollToComments=true > Experimental music , 7 upvotes
https://lemmy.world/post/40569003?scrollToComments=true > death metal, 3 upvotes.

[-] rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Technically, you might need to ban the song “skullgrid” since it was composed using procedural generation software

Was the procedural generation software trained using other artists' works? Or is it more like a drum machine with baked-in algorithms written by software developers? If the latter, that's not "AI" in the sense that this thread is primarily discussing.

[-] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Or is it more like a drum machine with baked-in algorithms written by software developers?

even better, using a scripting language that calls algorithms.

EDIT : Fair point though

[-] nublug@piefed.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 month ago

colloquially we all know 'ai' means generative large language models like gpt and copilot. nobody says 'ai' these days - especially in the context of question of the post here - and means sythesizers or minecraft or purpose-built and tailored narrowly scoped machine learning models integrated in software. we would say these other terms we've used here just like we have.

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[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 29 points 1 month ago

AI “training” is theft from human artists. Ban AI-gen completely.

[-] mrmaplebar@fedia.io 26 points 1 month ago

Agreed. I'll go one further and say disallow "AI" anything...

Soon the internet will be so full of sloppy shit that we need to start creating spaces dedicated to genuine human arts and communication right now.

[-] whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 1 month ago

If it's not disallowed outright at least require it to be clearly labeled

[-] gid@piefed.blahaj.zone 22 points 1 month ago

Yeah, disallow it. It's stolen pap that only makes the unethical corporations richer.

[-] marighost@piefed.social 18 points 1 month ago

I dunno guys, maybe we should allow it!

Music is pure human expression. I'd rather listen to the worst human-made music there is than the best AI-generated music.

[-] Fizz@lemmy.nz 17 points 1 month ago

Yes ban AI music completely. For a comprise I'd be ok with a regular ai music thread if there was any demand but i dont think there is.

[-] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

That also seems like a nice way of dealing with it

[-] KingDingbat@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Ban it by calling it what it is: spam. We don't even need to debate whether it's "real" music or not. The bots and accounts posting it here are spamming the community for views/plays solely so they make money off their fake content. Every time I've seen it it's dozens upon dozens of posts by the same account flooding the community and contributing nothing worthwhile. Almost always they are even trying to pass it off as genuine musicians.

[-] BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

can we keep the Weird Al stuff though

ha im so funny

[-] felixwhynot@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Such as? Jk?

[-] BigBananaDealer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

weird AL yankovic 🤣

[-] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Ban.

[-] xektop@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 month ago

Ban it .. there is a place and time for machine learning, but it's not art in any shape or form!

[-] nostrauxendar@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

Agree, ban the spam

[-] 87Six@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 month ago

Ban everything AI

I don't want to talk about clanker work, there's plenty of good work humans are doing

[-] shininghero@pawb.social 8 points 1 month ago

While there is one singular ai song that I actually like due to it mocking abusive customers, I consider it the exception and not the rule.

I vote for banning AI-generated songs.

[-] kogasa@programming.dev 7 points 1 month ago

AI music is a technical exercise, not art. Ban it

[-] bootstrap@piefed.social 7 points 1 month ago

Fuck that shit off permanently please

[-] vogi@piefed.social 3 points 2 weeks ago

Disallow it.

It might be interesting to hear what average music sounds like, but only once.

[-] Affidavit@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

I see more posts about AI than posts generated by AI. TBH, these are the posts I would rather get rid of. As is, I just block the users that spam this crap (sorry OP) just so I can see a post on Lemmy that isn't about fucking AI.

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