Comradeship // Freechat

The first thing I try to do is ask why. A lot of people still have this notion that law enforcement and military is there to protect people. Just ask a few questions about why they want to join an institution like that, and maybe get them to think about other ways they could help people. That's probably all you can do.

You can definitely reach people, 100%. That's what our work on the left is all about! I do want to preview that you should steel yourself for potential negative outcomes as well, though.

You may discover that they're actually not fundamentally good, or at least that's no longer how you can think of them. This is a difficult and painful thing that we all eventually contend with.

The nice granny that you chat with every day might be a vehement racist that cheered lynchings. She's very nice and friendly. Wouldn't hurt a fly. Babysat you. And she's a vehement racist and you didn't know that until you were 32 years old. When you go to fight against racism, she will be your enemy. She might call the cops on you. She might take information you told her about your beliefs and use them against you. Reason number 7468 to find ride-or-die comrades, but I digress.

People that are particularly ambitious can sometimes be appealed to, but they can also see you as getting in their way and attacking them even if you're being relatively passive or appealing to empathy. There are people who might as well be entirely unreachable by normal strategies because it would take a serious trauma to even begin changing their minds. There are people I've known who say they are guided entirely by "empathy for people they've never met" yet dehumanized South Asian people when I pointed out that something they saw as building their career was casteist. They then isolated and got someone fired for being dalit. The driving factor there was getting in between them and ambition and they rationalized it entirely through their self-identity lens as a "progressive". They think they're right.

So, with all that said, when approaching people about this the key is to build shared ground and empathy first. You want to break down any walls that would be present if you levvied the criticism directly and immediately. There are a lot of ways to try this out. I think some of the most effective are to slowly chip away in the orbit of the topic. Let's say they want to be a cop. I might talk about involvement in BLM and how cops targeted me with violence that can kill and disable just for being at a protest against them. I'm using the fact that my friend wants me to be healthy and alive to hopefully build a common ground that they shouldn't have done that. If wet can establish that, I can start talking about how they were acting like a gang and I've been reading about these incidents where cops see bad things done by their coworkers and then get harassed. Maybe they'd like to watch somr videos with me? I'll order takeout for us. That kind of thing.

Basically, the thing I focus on is providing them with a pathway for a slow retreat. People can get very defensive, so creating a situation in which they can eventually present the change of opinion as being their own idea and development is valuable. They probably won't change their opinions for months. But the seeds of doubt can help them make those changes on their own in situations where they don't have to admit they were wrong.

In contrast, it is also sometimes effective to just plain give people shit. It depends on your relationship with the person. Some relationships expect direct complaints and others expect roundabout conflict aversion.

I'm sure you'll do a good job either way. Remember, it's not your fault if they don't come around right away, or ever. It has taken years for some people I know to abandon their fundamentally imperialist career ambitions.

"You want to be a cop/soldier/agent? What's more appealing to you, shooting brown people or being a jackboot for our capitalist overlords?"

Don't be nice to acquaintances, stinging critique will stay on their mind more than gently prodding them. If it's friends or family and you think they won't want to talk to you if you use such rhetoric then maybe you hold their hand and try and engage in a longer, more nuanced and less hostile discussion but be clear about your views and present them evidence as to what these organisations really are.

Cop? What happens to do gooder whistle blowing types? They die.

Soldiers? What the fuck were they doing protecting poppy plantations in Afghanistan?

CIA? show then the Stockwell interviews on what they did

Fbi? Murdered Fred Hampton

You can talk people out of bad aspirations if you have rapport with them, some patience, and they trust your judgement.

I've talked a number of kids out of careers, though it can make my soul hurt if their fallback choice is something like "I want to be a famous musician" and I don't want to shoot that dream down as much as advise them to have a third option after that if that doesn't work out.

For some people it isn’t worth the argument because they’ve dug into that stance and arguing will make them dig deeper. My Libertarian friend went that route, he was Pro-Palestine, Pro-Gun and over time I changed his opinion on Unions, but he joined the US Army and no amount of talk changed their opinion, they dug in further and I barely talk to them now. That isn’t the case for everyone but just a warning

I agree with the sentiments of asking why they want to do those things. If they want to help/protect people, that's a good thing even if their conclusion of how to do that is wrong. Maybe can help suggest other fields they can engage in that would serve that goal without being the obvious law enforcement choices.

I know of a couple people that want to join the military. I intend to make a presentation for school about all the terrible stuff they’ve done at some point.

As for being a cop, I think there is not much problem with it, it is important to separate the institution of the people on it, and furthermore, if everyone with left leaning thinking goes away from cops/army, the corps get more and more entrenched in liberal right wing thought. The average cop is a workforce person, there is value on going into those spaces and trying to make a change, even if slowly, I don't see it as a problem. As far as the 3 letter agencies, those are rougher, because there is no pretense there, you will be actually charged of fucking everybody for the sake of the state, so yeah, I can see very little opportunity to do good on those agencies, but being a cop and/or soldier I see the value. I do think that good people being cops are a good thing, it is a corrupt organization that serves to uphold the exploitation of the proletariat, sure, but can be a slightly less bad corrupt organization, with the right people occupying the right spots.