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submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 9 points 17 hours ago

I agree with this. Also, I think the rich people trying to control the working class don't have a grand conspiracy. Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up. We get screwed on all fronts by similar-looking corporations, so it looks like a conspiracy.

But when rich people buy politicians, that's a public and well known conspiracy.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 16 hours ago

Mostly, I think they silently cooperate in a way that looks coordinated, but is just individual self-interest that happens to line up.

Plato observed this. It's called oligarchy. He said the good news is that it eventually falls because of the lack of coordination, because oligarchs having their own interests end up conflicting one another. The people also always get fed up with corruption eventually. The bad news is that it will get worse before it gets better.

[-] [email protected] 66 points 2 days ago

"You don't need to invent an invisible shadow government to be mad at. You can just be mad at the actual government."

[-] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago

i think- i think the "invisible shadow government" conspiracies are a cope. if someone voted for the current government that is fucking things up (as the opposition said they would) then it might be hard to admit to having made the wrong choice whilst voting, especially if the current government claims to hold the same values as you "my wholesome christian government that said they'd help guys like me wouldn't be the ones making my life harder! it must be the secret cabal!!!"

[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

An "invisible shadow government" is a crazy idea. Why would someone in charge of a black budget and it's secret infrastructure accept democratic oversight?

[-] [email protected] 147 points 2 days ago

As Naomi Klein said: Conspiracy theorists often get the feeling right but the facts wrong.

[-] [email protected] 72 points 2 days ago

i have an ur-conspiracy theory that every elaborate conspiracy theory is a distraction from a simple and straightforward conspiracy. for every "trump is trying to uncover a vast child sex ring" there's a "trump fucks kids and our system of capital protects him"

[-] [email protected] 40 points 2 days ago

That kind of sums up the difference Naomi Klein makes in Doppelganger about conspiracy theory and leftist critics: Leftists will look at the system while conspiracy theorists will assume the system is good but some people, most often Jews, have somehow corrupted it.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 2 days ago

Im sure you know Cory Doctrorow already but i still wanted to share this little section from one of his recent blogposts.

https://pluralistic.net/2025/07/19/systemic/

Trump's conspiratorial base are hugely and reliably animated by stories about impunity for elite sex predators. As well they should be! Elite sex predators get away with all kinds of crimes – not just Epstein, but the whole universe of powerful men, from Harvey Weinstein to Donald Trump, who systematically abused women for decades and got away with it – bragged about it, even!

But despite these very real abusers, the conspiracists in the Trump base are mostly concerned with imaginary abusers – Qanon's shadowy cabal of adrenochrome-guzzling pedophiles, tirelessly freighting trafficked children from one nonexistent pizza parlor basement to the next, packed inside of very mid Wayfair home furnishings:

https://pluralistic.net/2021/07/05/ideomotor-response/#qonspiracy

This is the "mirror world" of right wing conspiracism described in Naomi Klein's Doppelganger:

https://pluralistic.net/2023/09/05/not-that-naomi/#if-the-naomi-be-klein-youre-doing-just-fine

It's the world in which real suffering children (kids in cages, children rotting in Alligator Auschwitz, kids working the night-shift at a meat-packing plant) don't matter at all, while imaginary children (unborn children, Qanon victims, etc) take center stage.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

The general difference, though unspoken, is that the kids being "trafficked" in their heads are white middle class suburban kids. A lot of conspiracy simply leads back to antisemitism, white supremacy, or both.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Yes, they don't care about the real victims because those kids have the wrong skin tone.

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

I think this sums up pizzagate. The actual evidence was woeful but some high up people got very scared and shut it down.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago
[-] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

R/pizzagate

Voat

ben swann

Etc.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

If you're into literature and willing to explore the absurdity of conspiracy theorists then Foucault's Pendulum by Humberto Eco is a great read.

And somehow prophetic regarding the post truth world...

[-] [email protected] 35 points 2 days ago

I mean there's definitely groups of powerful rich people that aren't widely known. That's just cuz they're smart enough to stay out of the Limelight. It's not a secret society though.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Like Thiel and Ellison. They are pulling the strings like a marionette on our government, but they aren't household names.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power. Instead newspapers gossip about movie stars and a small group of rich people. That's more than smartness.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

If the rich people control everything then it would be normal to put the spotlight on each one of them once in a while just for society to know who holds the power.

Ain't no "If". There is no need for the people to know who holds the power if they are perfectly capable of maintaining power without the spotlight, which they are. Being in 'the spotlight' would only hurt them because then people would know who to blame.

It's only the ignorant jackasses like Trump and Musk who gained their power by luck who brag about their power, the rest are cunning enough to know better.

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[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago

Well yeah man who do you think owns the spotlights?

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[-] [email protected] 48 points 2 days ago
[-] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Why does one replace the other? Ever since 9/11 I've noticed a real push to discredit conspiracy theories to the point where the term now invokes images of lunatics with tin foil hats and insane ideas like lizard people and whatnot. It's been really effective too. Like, there's things out there that sound bat shit crazy until it turns out they were true - like operation Northwoods for example - but nobody seems to care because they are verified decades later.

Sure, there's visible people out there that can be blamed, but why is it so outlandish that there may be more who know how to hide from public scrutiny?

I've always wondered for example, what ever happened to the vast wealth of all these families that feature in every conspiracy theory like the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers etc? Are we to believe that they just faded away from public affairs, are no longer important and that the richest men in the world are the newbies, Bezos Elon etc? I've not looked into it or anything (Eddie Bravo style) but somehow I don't buy it, I bet they're still behind major things that are happening today. If anyone has an explanation I'd love to hear it btw. Would love nothing better than a good debunking.

[-] [email protected] 41 points 2 days ago

Why not both?

The rich love being in a exclusive secret clubs and creating a secret club with dedicated buildings/rooms is not super difficult if you have money. They are still the same rich though.

[-] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago

It’s almost certainly both. It’s the ones we know about (all the stupid ones) and the ones we don’t know about (smarter.)

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

What if the movers and shakers get together at a publicly disclosed, but extremely private meeting with no outside access?

No meeting notes, and the participants are basically sworn to secrecy. But once a year the most obscenely wealthy individuals on the planet get together to discuss their own vision for the future. And the location is public knowledge, simply because the insane level of security ensures that nobody who wasn't invited will ever get in.

And whatever they decide, these fuckers absolutely have the power to make it happen. Bet they just fucking laugh their asses off at the various Illuminati conspiracies out there.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

And for a confirmed conspiracy led by a secret society of movers and shakers there's Propaganda Due, a now-dissolved Italian Masonic lodge whose members (including future Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi) held high positions in Italy's government, military, intelligence agencies, religious institutions, and news industry.

Many former members still hold a great deal of power even though P2 is known to have had journalists and dissidents assassinated, supported terrorists targeting their own citizens, and were plotting a right-wing coup (one that sounds a hell of a lot like what is happening in the US, for that matter).

[-] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago

Getting people to hunt for an imaginary boogeyman is remarkably effective at getting them to ignore the villain standing in front of them, isn't it?

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[-] [email protected] 32 points 2 days ago

I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all!

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

The only good billionaire is a dead billionaire

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago
[-] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

You can't be widely known and not known at the same time

[-] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

You know there’s more than one rich person in the world, right?

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[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

Both. The smart works work behind the scenes like that anti christ looking mfer Peter thiel.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

He looks like a fucking tweaker

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago

I don't really know how widely known Peter Thiel is. Like the circles I run in know him. He's known here. But does the average person on the street know who is? Not even that does the average news watcher/reader know who he is?

[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 days ago

Secret group of rich people

Let me guess. Those rich people are Jewish?

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

No, they're secret. No way to know. Unless you got insider information. i lick it boom boom dem

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[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago

I'm still trying to figure out if Bill Gates is good or evil.

[-] [email protected] 32 points 2 days ago

Gates made his money off monopolizing technology. You can find memos where he specifically leveraged his contacts with manufacturers to ignore specifications (which Microsoft helped specify) so FOSS like Linux wouldn't work properly.

I truly believe in a world without Microsoft that todays software would be much safer, private and advanced by quite a few years.

Gates only became a philanthropist after he married, there's probably a very good reason she left, even excluding the Epstein connections.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

And he's largely responsible for the "licensing" model for commercial software, ensuring we'll never actually own software we pay for. So not surprising at all he used 'scorched earth' tactics to impede the Foss movement.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 2 days ago

There are no good billionaires.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
1610 points (99.6% liked)

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