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In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:
As it turns out it doesn't actually cost that much on regular transit, there's an AIRPORT SURCHARGE because it's an "airport train".
No wonder Americans don't use public transit, even when the system exists it's ridiculously difficult and expensive to use.
Imagine working minimum wage in SF and commuting in by BART + BUS / MUNI Lightrail / CALTRAIN / FERRY. Gotta work at least 2 hours just to cover the costs of your commute every day.
Wait... Employers don't cover travel cost to and from work in America..?
Pretty rarely, far as I know. I've seen some that cover public transit costs at least. It's more common for them to only reimburse costs for travel during work hours or for business related trips.
Nope, very rarely do you see them cover it at all. That's why we hate our 1+ hour drive commutes.
Wtf? It's normal in the Netherlands...
Public transport will be the whole second class price. By car it is up to 23 cents per kilometer.
Gosh that would be nice. Unfortunately we are stuck on simpler issues like "do kids deserve to eat at school", so it'll probably be a while before we get paid commute time.
Many do: I believe there is a tax incentive for them. I’ve only had it while working downtown, and in a white collar job. So not where you’d usually drive to work and not for hourly pay.
Given that there are very few required benefits, it can be fairly regressive. You don’t get help with transit unless you’re an aid enough. You don’t get better health coverage unless you’re paid enough.
Not in Canada either
Not required. SF does have an ordinance to cover some costs depending on the number of employees. But its not some nationwide law.
If you're a fancy tech bro in SF all your costs are covered, health/dental/vision/life insurance, commuting stipend or govt subsidized account you get to put pre-tax money in and the company might match, matching contributions for your retirement 401K. The techbro class doesn't care about the cost of BART, many of them take an UBER for 3-4x the BART faire and not bat and eye at the bill (or use the company UBER account for free). If you're just some random minimum wage worker, you'd be lucky to live within an hour or two commute of SF and afford housing.
Surprisingly it is a national law, but it’s in the tax code as an optional benefit so it’s usually the better part paying jobs that get it, weirdly enough. Scroll to “commuter benefit)
I was a techbro in sf. I worked from home most days, but when I went to the office, I used Bart and my bicycle. It was great. I hate cars.
And, yes, I got the State to refund me for my monthly Bart pass
Why do Americans think everything has to profit?
Not only must everything profit, it must profit MORE than it did previously. If you make $10 million selling widgets last year, and make $10 million again this year, well that's a failing business and you should be fired.
If you predict that your business will be up 5% this quarter, and it's only up 3%, that's considered a disaster, and the stock price will drop, and that CEO is still in trouble. Repeat every quarter.
Because that's the foundation and definition of capitalism. The market will provide (as long as there's profit to be made).
Not saying it's right though.
That's not the definition or foundation of capitalism, it's the definition of a market economy.
The foundation of capitalism is a system where investors can pool small amounts of money together on big projects, to share risk and reward. Historically to fund trading ships on their way to the indies.
So it destructures ownership, which has a million ripple effects on the organization and economy.
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. This socioeconomic system has developed historically through several stages and is defined by a number of basic constituent elements: private property, profit motive, capital accumulation, competitive markets, commodification, wage labor, and an emphasis on innovation and economic growth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
In the context of "Why do Americans think everything has to profit?", then the point is that the train is considered only for the profit it can make, and not for the environmental etc benefits. This is a result of the market economy as you rightly state (and private ownership of transportation).
In case anyone is wondering, a one way trip from Oakland International Airport to the Civic Center station in San Francisco (the stop next to City Hall and the city's largest open air fent market) is exactly $12.65.
The trip from Oakland to Civic Center is "just" $5.20, but like OP said, there's a fuckass stupid airport surcharge for the last half mile or so.
Isn’t the idea of such a surcharge to encourage an alternate transit mode?
Apparently they believe they don’t have enough taxis clogging the entrance? Every driver trying to reach my local airport should thank me for taking the airport shuttle.
Meanwhile here in Germany I can use any bus, tram, U-Bahn, or train (excluding high speed) anywhere in the country for 58€/month
In SF its a hundred dollars a month, but you can only go to 4 stations in the city, so you end up paying regular fare on top of that all the time, and usless for commuters.
The busses frequently dont exist even though google and the signs say they should be arriving, so youre frequently an hour or more late because you had to get an uber because the bus never came.
If youre going to a connecting train or flight you need to leave hours early to account for delays.
NYC is much more reasonable
The DeutschlandTicket is the best thing! I love it. I want that with their Steuernummer, baby’s get a DeutschlandTicket. Everybody needs a DeutschlandTicket.
I've been wondering why this hasn't become a thing yet. Probably lobbying from all the Verkehrsverbünde.
No, they really want to keep it as cheap as possible. It's the Bundesregierung that rather subsidises Diesel privileges and Pendlerpauschalen.
It cost me about £60 for one return rail ticket last week 😭 that's not including the tube fare to get to the station.
Yep, train tickets are ridiculous here. It kills me on the inside whenever I have to go to London.
i wondered, who is this person who is so out of touch that she thinks that is a reasonable price, and... she is a former member of congress from orange county who is currently campaigning to be governor of california 🤡
The alternative is higher taxes and everyone scoffs at that so...
I just got to Panama City, buses are a flat $0.25 regardless of distance and the Metro is a flat $0.50 regardless of distance.
took the train for ~8 mi into town to get to my hotel for $0.50.
I'm in Mumbai. The 37km north-south journey from one end of the city to the other costs 20¢ on the local train. $1.20 if you want to ride the fancy train with AC. East-west is 13km and costs 50¢ on the elevated metro line.
Just think: the public transport system in the bay area is one of the better ones in the u.s.
The poorer the country (not on average) the more demand there is for low-cost transit, that demand brings down the price of public transport tremendously because less public money is spend on other (more private) forms of transit. The 'problem' isn't only people loving cars it's also people being able to afford them. In general it also isn't the rich asking for public healthcare and education. The lack of public transport shows the power of the wealthy over the power of the masses.
Took a 3 day train in India from the south up to Nepal. I think it was $30
India trains are the best trains in the world.
India trains are the best trains in the world.
Ehhhh...no, not really. There's a lot of room for improvement there, honestly. They're absolutely pretty inexpensive, but even then they're sorely lacking in basic amenities, and successive governments (especially the current one) have steadily been ignoring the railways more and more in favor of roads and airlines -- because rich people tend to either drive or fly, and mostly only poor people take trains. I guess the powers that be think that means the railways aren't worth caring about.
It's causing a runaway effect where more and more people are being forced to use roads because the trains are either in terrible nick or overcrowded or both, which means there's even less focus on actually improving the trains, and so on and so forth.
I once went through a BART gate line by mistake, I was trying to get to the trolley service and misread the signage. I immediately exited. The charge: $6.20. Still can’t believe it.
I walked off the train into a depowered station at night and couldnt scan off at the station, so I got on a bus and it depleted my card, then the next day I got a ticket for riding the bus without paying because the computer stole all my money and the guy giving me a ticket couldnt care less that I actually payed more than I should have but just kept repeating that I "should have had more money on the card"
Use cash.