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submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 103 points 2 weeks ago

I know exactly how every beat of this conversation is going to go, but I'm still here for it.

I've been hearing how games are too focused on graphics since the late 1980s.

That time you remember games being all about fun? People then were complaining about how chasing visuals over gameplay was ruining games.

I know because I was there and I was complaining.

Graphics are fun and cool. I like graphics.

[-] [email protected] 45 points 2 weeks ago

It all started going downhill when Nethack added color support in 1989: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHack_3.0.4#Significant_changes

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[-] [email protected] 37 points 2 weeks ago

Design > graphics Also, strike the earth!

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

Design = graphics.

Or maybe Design(graphics).

Graphics ARE design. Barring very few exceptions, games communicate themselves visually. What the graphics look like, how they are laid out and how they convey the rules are absolutely fundamental parts of the experience-as-designed on every game, regardless of how technically complex the visuals turn out to be.

These arguments always bum me out a little, because they start from the premise that, say the people at, say, Yacht Club care less about or put less effort into what their games look like than larger devs using photorreal visuals, which should not survive looking at a single frame of their work.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Same word, different meanings. It may not be the technically correct definition of the word, but typically when people talk about "good graphics," they're talking about photorealism. In MrMobius's comment, "graphics" = high resolution, photorealism, the kind of thing the comic we're commenting under is talking about, and "design" = art direction, aesthetic.

ETA: That said, higher resolution can make already strong art direction even better. I think a large part of what makes Clair Obscur look so pretty is the juxtaposition of the surreal elements with the photorealistic graphics. Esquie sticks out to me in particular, because he looks so physically real, and also so alien.

I'm not trained in media criticism, so I'm sure someone else can phrase that better than I can

ETA more: Also, games that are designed to look as real as possible also take a lot of effort and talent. Just because Bodycam doesn't look like a comic book or a surreal painting doesn't mean it doesn't have strong art direction. It cannot be easy to make a game that looks so indistinguishable from actual body cam footage.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

Dwarf fortress is peak.

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[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 weeks ago

Graphics are cool! I just also think the story, mechanics, and game difficulty balance should have an equal amount of consideration, which seems poorly lacking in a lot of modern AAA games. A mile wide and an inch deep is a saying for a reason.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 weeks ago

The real point where this argument falls apart is that modern AAA games almost exclusively use TAA, which ruins graphics. I’m so sick of shadows blurring and everything looking terrible and people saying it’s next level.

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

Purists when an artform incorporates another artform: >:(

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[-] [email protected] 46 points 2 weeks ago

Dwarf Fortress has graphics now! You don't have to install the Lazy Newb Pack! What a time to be alive

[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

I came to ask if I could still play dwarf fortress.. Now that the make it understandable to me

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 weeks ago

You can still play the ascii-version :P

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

The game is free, the graphics cost extra.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

After seeing that docuseries on the brothers I felt even better about buying it. They seem like genuinely nice people who managed to get rich doing what they love without exploiting anyone. That's the dream right there, and I wish them and the Balatro guy happy lives

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

But do you still need dwarf therapist to actually see what you are doing?

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[-] [email protected] 33 points 2 weeks ago

Definitely how it feels sometimes talking to the gamers who literally care about graphics over everything. I care about gameplay..

[-] [email protected] 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You think games have to be fun?

You will play pathologic and fear and hunger until the situation improves

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

...and then there's the second Fear and Hunger, where my first run ended with the Woodsman because I chopped off the arm holding the giant axe instead of killing his dick, and then the dick detached and went all Alien face hugger and stunned me while he beat me up with his remaining arm.

Of course I like explaining Pathologic to people as "the game that looks at a glance like it's an FPS adjacent RPG but in which when you first get a gun you will probably immediately sell it to buy some bread". Fucking plague caused by an infected wound in a very unusual location.

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[-] [email protected] 23 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I see both sides of the argument and generally lean on the older games are fun side, but my God, just let people enjoy what they want. Gaming eletism is so annoying and doesn't even stop people from playing new games anyways.

Get them knowledge that duenvo is an issue, not that they should be still playing super mario bros 1 or snake on a Nokia if they want to own their games.

[-] [email protected] 21 points 2 weeks ago

Shoutout to Caves of Qud, because it wasn't mentioned yet. I've been looking for a game that comes close to ZAngband which I played in the 90s. COQ has a tileset, so it's not ASCII and I didn't like the looks at first but it's fun when you see how deep it is. Complex character creation, quests, factions, 'bosses'.. I think the world map is not randomly generated, the rest is afaik (ruins, multi-levelled lairs, most villages..).

[-] [email protected] 20 points 2 weeks ago

And yet Clair Obscur Expedition 33 is both super fun and breathtakingly beautiful

[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

It's also proof you don't need a massive team and an obscene budget to push good looks

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

You only really need those for massive open world projects like gta

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Largely because it has such strong art direction. They really make use of the high resolution to make the humans look more human, and the non-humans look more alien

That said, if I have one criticism about the game, it's that there isn't really a lot of cohesion between character/creature designs. It's the same thing that bugged me about Stellar Blade, as opposed to something like Nier Automata or Gears of War. The nevrons don't really look like they belong in the game the way locusts do in Gears.

But I am only in Act 2. Maybe this criticism will wane as I learn more about them

[-] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I feel like the older, pixel sparse graphical style is making a comeback.

A lot of recent surprise hits were of that style:

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

Valheim is also a game that's low pixel count but due to sweeping landscapes and amazing lighting is gorgeous.

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[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

Growing up, one of my best friends parents set us up with a terminal MUD connection. Basically an old school, text based only MMO. You had to type in your commands, "look north", "walk east", "attack ". I was able to make a Sayian character, walk around town and Kamehameha my foes. I recall finding Smurf village and getting killed many times by Papa Smurf.

I wish I remembered what server it was or if any even exist any more.

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[-] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2134320/ENA_Dream_BBQ/

Just wish it was a bit longer, but for the price of free I can't complain. I suggest going in blind and high if that's your thing.

[-] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

Graphics are cool, but I'd rather prefer a fun game over a good looking game

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago

The only roguelike I play is Rogue.

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

I'm in the middle of my first playthrough of Morrowind right now. Maybe I should go find a mod that makes the graphics worse. Maybe one that limits the resolution to 480p and makes everything monochrome wireframe with a viewing distance of just two or three meters.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago

That wasn’t the original experience on Xbox? 😜

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

There actually was a famous mod for an Elder Scrolls game that made it look worse: Oldblivion for Oblivion. The game had high system requirements for the time, and the mod did things like removing the 3D foliage/grass so crappy GPUs could run the game.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago

OK, but... Does anyone have recommendations for obscure text-based games? Sounds rad tbh

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

I was going to recommend The Great Machine: A Fragment by Jonas Kyratzes (writer for The Eternal Cylinder and The Talos Principle, if you’ve heard of those), but it looks like it’s not on his website anymore :( It’s probably been close to 20 years since I played it, but I remember enjoying it. It’s about being a soldier in a war.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

West of House. You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

If you count ASCII graphics as text-based games you could play CDDA. Better requirement is games that could be played over an SSH session.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

The graphics on this comic are rough 😜

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

First, I can't afford a new computer or even a new graphics card. All these "gaming on a budget" type things are all priced in USD, and I'm in Canada after conversion and the Canada tax, local shops are selling it for a lot more.... I can only imagine that going up with the tariffs.

Second, graphics ain't shit. Look at some of the most popular games around and some of them have the "worst" graphics. I don't mean to pick on any game in specific, but I'll mention two notable examples: the first is Minecraft. Square voxels and pretty basic visuals all around. Easily one of the most popular titles of all time. I don't play it, but I get it. The other example I want to point to is schedule I. Honestly the graphics in the game, when compared to the nearly realistic content that games like assassin's Creed has, and it's basically trash by comparison. The game is huge and hugely popular. The graphics, or lack thereof, is not a detractor from how fun the game is.

Don't get me wrong. High graphics can contribute to a good game; and therein lies the problem. You need to have a good game that you can apply the graphics to, in order for it to be valuable. If you take away the graphics and replace the visuals with something far more basic, and the game loses its appeal, your game sucks. Fix that first, then try again.

I have a pretty massive collection of steam titles that I'm planning to play as things start to devolve into higher and higher specs for basically no gains. Like ray tracing, it's cool, looks good... But I don't need it to have fun in a game. I usually turn it off because it compromises performance for basically no real gain. Sure, shadows look a bit more shit, and lights aren't as glowy, but I don't care about that. I just want to play. Why is RT a requirement for some games now? The hell?

Anyways. High graphics are better in more cinematic games, but publishers have gotten so obsessed with making cinematic content that they forgot to include a game with it.

Give me more substance, more character development, more scenes, not just action.

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[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I find it more irritating when people post two screenshots to make the argument: This picture looks better than this picture, therefore the graphics in this game are better than in this game, therefore this game is better than this game. The most complex form of media to date is luckily very easy to compare.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You really don't need much to make a good game:
example a
example b
example c
example d

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago

example b

Officially created by KFC

I... wait... really?

No, really

Well oooookay then.

I mean, I guess this dating sim isn't any more weird than their TTRPG, "Feast of Legends".

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

The sonic one is also on the meme/marketing side.

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

Elin is the game you're looking for.

It's not ascii... but it is very ADOM influenced. And very japanese.

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Graphism allows to convey story and emotion much clearer. Imagine playing baldurs gate 3 with gta4 stiff low poly faces. The character would be much less expressive and thus emotions become harder to convey.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 weeks ago

My person in Chrysler, BG 2 existed and was just as expressive with just voice and still pictures. And half the lines weren't even voiced.

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this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
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