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[–] 201 points 2 years ago* (18 children)

The joke of these games is that they aren't notably more weird than titles Bethesda and Bioware were famous for turning out. Hard to get more weird than Fallout's more esoteric vaults or Morrowind's bizarre cults and exotic cultures.

BG3/KC:D have been, if anything, a direct successors to the old classics. They're faithfully propagating the fundamental ideas these old titles represented in a way the new studios are unable to reproduce.

Also, honorable mention to the poor bastards who released Disco Elysium and then got their studio stripped out from underneath them by their financiers. Absolute gem of a game and you should feel free to pirate it without a twinge of guilt.

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  • [–] 49 points 2 years ago

    What had happened to the people in ZAUM (or what was once that studio), is a tragedy, and a huge shame. I'm not even a cRPG/dnd person, but that game has singlehandedly opened my eyes to a whole new world. It's easily in my top10 games of all time, and I wish we could get another one eventually

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    [–] 72 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    It’s funny and sad knowing that Bethesda once were the company making weird and ambitious RPGs.

    Morrowind is one of the weirdest and most ambitious games of that era.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    Morrowind was thier hail mary to stay in buisness.

    Then they gave the series to Howard and his crew...

    It's like the super bowl champs giving the next decade to the Bears.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Morrowind: An oral history on Polygon is a wonderful read.

    All the little stories Kirkbride tells are great. My favourite is him designing progressively weird shit to dupe Howard with. He’d be like “Hey Todd, can we put this in the game?” and after he knowingly got knocked back he’d present him something more palatable.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    That's a classic negotiation technique abusing the psychological anchoring effect.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    Yeah, I’ve heard of writers on shows like the Animaniacs doing it, insisting heavily on a more outrageous joke having to go in knowing it’ll get knocked back as a Trojan horse to slip the real jokes they want in.

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    [+] 35 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    The freedom that Morrowind gives you has never been matched by other Bethesda titles. I think the only path that's blocked to the player is joining the Sixth House, but at least you can kill Vivec before confronting Dagoth Ur

    I can't speak for Daggerfall's freedom as I haven't really delved into it, but I know it has 6 different endings depending on which faction you ally with.

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    [–] 29 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The article totally misses the big intervening step between Skyrim/old Bioware and the failure of Starfield/Dragon Age: CDProjectRED.

    While those studios largely just made "more of the same", CDPR made Witcher 3 and then Cyberpunk 2077. Both games are way better narrative experiences and pushed RPG forward. Starfield looks very dated in comparison to both, and Dragon Age failed to capture to magic. Baldur's Gate 3 and Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 are successes because they also bring strong narratives and emotional connections to the stories.

    Starfield would have been huge if it had been released soon after Skyrim. But now it just looks old fashioned, and I think the "wide as an ocean, as deep as a puddle" analogy is good for Starfield. Meanwhile Witcher 3 - which is 10 years old! - has quests and storylines with choices and emotional impact. BG3 and KC:D2 are heirs to Witcher 3.

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    [–] 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Kingdom Come Deliverance wasn't even on my radar and now I'm obsessed. The NPCs are so fucking funny

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    [–] 24 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    With its nuanced characters, wonderfully layered world, and incredible depth of interactions, it was natural to feel the game had set a new bar for the whole genre—but it was pointed out that declaring it the new standard was unreasonable and unsustainable given how few other developers could possibly rise to meet it.

    You could make a game a third of the size of BG3, and it would still be excellent value for BG3's asking price. And no, you shouldn't attempt to make a competitor with BG3 on your first try. Nor should you try to make a competitor to Elden Ring on your first try; FromSoft had been making those games for the better part of 15 years, building and iterating on what came before. I do think more RPG developers should strive to follow the systems-driven approach that Larian has and be cognizant of what it is that we all like about BG3, but it can be sustainable if you don't try to hit a home run on the first pitch.

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    [–] 23 points 2 years ago

    This shouldn't surprise anyone. When you look through the classics, they're not "typical". Hell, one of the most iconic games involves a plumber fighting a punk-rock turtle to save a princess, with a variety of mushrooms both helping and hindering.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    People understandably love to hate Oblivion and Fallout 3, but I feel the side quest writing had heart, like groups of devs got to go wild within their own little dungeons. Their exploitable mechanics were kinda endearing.

    …And I didn’t get that from Starfield? I really tried to overlook the nostalgia factor, but all the writing felt… corporate. Gameplay, animation, Bethesda jank without any of the fun. I abandoned it early and tried to see what I was missing on YouTube, but still don't "get" what people see in that game.

    If you want a big walking sandbox in that vein, I feel like No Man's Sky would scratch the itch far better, no?

    Meanwhile, BG3 and KC2 completely floored me. So did Cyberpunk 2077, though I only experienced it patched up and modded. Heck, even ME Andromeda felt more compelling to me.

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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    If you're even remotely interested in Warhammer 40k, the Rogue Trader CRPG is excellent

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/2186680/Warhammer_40000_Rogue_Trader/

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    [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    Less flash, more passionate people allowed to create. Shocker.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago* (26 children)

    I wish there were more new sci-fi RPGs of that quality.

    I do hear CP2077 is good now and I keep meaning to play it.

    TBH I'll probably end up enjoying Starfield once I get around to trying it as well.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    CP2077's story is nice but short (for an RPG these days) but the meat is in the world and side missions.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    As I've grown older and busier, I now prefer shorter games. Even when I intentionally try to play games, I may get 2-3 hours a week most weeks. A 100-hour campaign takes me a year to play through.

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    [–] 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    But BioWare games used to be the top tier gaming company standard for excellence. Bethesda used to release amazingly ambitious titles that were unmatched (albeit buggy!).

    Greed outweighs the love of games.

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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    the future of RPGs

    Or, hear me out, the future might be 2D pixel-art games made by one or two people in a bedroom -- not by critical acclaim or player sentiment, but just by sheer volume, filling up digital storefronts.

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