So real quick on your self reliance bullshit, did you build the roads you drive on? And then go on to build the car, the tires, and every component of the vehicle (probably a truck)? Did you also craft all the materials for your own house? I'm just asking because the point of a society is that life is easier together. In fact, our cells kind of prove that point on a biological level, since they're basically a colony that works together to create you.
So real quick on your self reliance bullshit, did you build the roads you drive on?
That has nothing to do with self-reliance. What are you going on about? By the way, I don't NEED a fucking car--that's self-reliance.
My house is paid off. My cars are paid off. My land is paid off. I use solar power for most of my electricity, and could go 100 percent if I chose to. I grow my own vegetables. I raise my own meat. I'm stocked up for 2 years with emergency food and water.
The world could fucking close down tomorrow and I'd be just fucking fine.
I never said anything about getting rid of cars or roads or houses. Self-reliance is being about being able to get buy if that disappeared tomorrow--which I can.
I'm retired, have no debts, have savings to last me the rest of my life, so my pension is just fun money. I live in Amish country most of my neighbors are Amish and/or Amish-friendly.
I could get by just fine if society shut down tomorrow.
If you wanna give the majority of your paycheck to the government because you feel good about it, then do that. Nothing stopping you from donating all of your money to them.
But I won't. And I fucking love Trump being president.
If you wanna give the majority of your paycheck to the government because you feel good about it, then do that. Nothing stopping you from donating all of your money to them.
Wow. Much hyperbole. I feel like that must get kinda exhausting, but hey, you do you.
Edit: Oh! And let's not forget, the Republicans are gonna raise your taxes. So...umm, yeah, not a great argument buddy. 😎
Wow. Much hyperbole.
How so? If you wanna give more to the government, then do that. I'm not stopping you. But don't expect me to.
Edit: Oh! And let’s not forget, the Republicans are gonna raise your taxes.
And Harris would have too. lmao
That's a lot of words to say "Fuck you, I got mine" we also have one word to shorten even that up with, "Selfish"
You were never taught to share or have empathy for your fellow human and it shows.
And you know what's hilarious? Most plans that are for things like UBI or Single Payer Healthcare or [ some other Gov Funded Program to help people] can be fully funded by taxing the rich, both individually and giant corporations their fair share.
That’s a lot of words to say “Fuck you, I got mine” we also have one word to shorten even that up with, “Selfish”
Considering that you make way more money than I have ever made in my life, that's fucking hilarious for you to say.
You were never taught to share or have empathy for your fellow human and it shows.
So do you give 80 percent of your paycheck away, and live on minimum wage so YOU can help your fellow human?
Most plans that are for things like UBI or Single Payer Healthcare
I'm all for those things. So how come Biden didn't make them happen when he was president? How come Harris didn't talk about making it happen? How come not democrat president has ever made UBI happen?
Considering that you make way more money than I have ever made in my life, that's fucking hilarious for you to say.
Where are you getting this info from? You just posted about being retired and having cars, land, housing paid off along with 2 years of emergency provisions stashed. Sounds like you're making more than me
So do you give 80 percent of your paycheck away, and live on minimum wage so YOU can help your fellow human?
If it meant guaranteed basic human needs (housing, healthcare, electricity and yes, even internet) being met for everyone absolutely I would, without hesitation.
But, it doesn't need to be, by making the people and corporations with more pay more in a proper and fair scaled system the people with the least, pay the least
I'm all for those things. So how come Biden didn't make them happen when he was president? How come Harris didn't talk about making it happen? How come not democrat president has ever made UBI happen?
Think about it, all those things are currently handled and profited by giant corporations. Do you really think they're not spending that wealth keeping the profits flowing? Do you really think Trump/MAGA/GOP aren't in the pockets of giant corporations? Buddy, they are the rich. Dems at least did things little be little, GOP wants to throw the shit in reverse so the rich get richer faster
Did you know there used to be a corporate tax rate of 80%? Right up until Reagan iirc and the GOP has been slashing it since. I think it's around 30% now, after Biden raised it from where Trump slashed it to the first time around
Sounds like you’re making more than me
I never made more than $20 an hour in my entire life. Are you saying you make less than that?! lol
If it meant guaranteed basic human needs (housing, healthcare, electricity and yes, even internet) being met for everyone absolutely I would, without hesitation.
Oh, so it's all or nothing. So you won't help some people unless you can help all people? Hmmmm....
Think about it, all those things are currently handled and profited by giant corporations.
And did Biden change that? Would Harris have changed that?
Do you really think Trump/MAGA/GOP aren’t in the pockets of giant corporations?
Are you saying the Democratic party isn't in the pockets of giant corporations?! lmao
Did you know there used to be a corporate tax rate of 80%?
So how come all the dems that have been in charge hasn't permantly change that since Reagan worked on it?
I never made more than $20 an hour in my entire life. Are you saying you make less than that?! lol
Money isn't just what you earn hourly, it's your overall wealth. Land, housing paid off, cars, and emergency provisions all count. Stop trying to play poor when you're sitting on assets.
Oh, so it's all or nothing. So you won't help some people unless you can help all people? Hmmmm....
Lol just twist my words, I donate what I can and vote for systemic change because individual charity can't fix broken systems. The point is we CAN help everyone if we tax the wealthy properly.
And did Biden change that? Would Harris have changed that?
Biden passed significant progressive legislation like the Infrastructure bill and parts of Build Back Better despite constant opposition. Meanwhile, Trump's 2017 tax cuts primarily benefited corporations and the wealthy, dropping the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Are you saying the Democratic party isn't in the pockets of giant corporations?! lmao
There's a difference between imperfect allies and active enemies. One party at least tries to help working people while the other explicitly serves the ultra-wealthy. Look at their voting records, not their rhetoric.
So how come all the dems that have been in charge hasn't permantly change that since Reagan worked on it?
Because we haven't had a true progressive majority with enough power to overcome corporate lobbying. We need more progressives in office, not fewer. The GOP has been working for 50 years to dismantle the social safety net, and you're blaming Dems for not fixing it all at once?
Stop trying to play poor when you’re sitting on assets.
But if you make more than me, and have for a long time. then you could have even more assets than I do. Correct?
I donate what I can and vote for systemic change because individual charity can’t fix broken systems.
And nothing says you have to stop doing that. In fact, you can even donate more and cut your lifestyle if it means that much to you. I won't be doing that, but you certainly can.
Trump’s 2017 tax cuts primarily benefited corporations and the wealthy, dropping the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Ok, so did Biden reverse that in his 4 years he was in office and controlled both the house and the senate?
One party at least tries to help working people while the other explicitly serves the ultra-wealthy.
But if that's true and if more people believed that as you do, you should have easily won the election. So that means either you are right and the majority who voted in Trump are wrong, OR you in the minorty and people just don't agree with you.
Because we haven’t had a true progressive majority with enough power to overcome corporate lobbying.
So how come the Democrats didn't work on that?
The GOP has been working for 50 years to dismantle the social safety net, and you’re blaming Dems for not fixing it all at once?
But Democrats have been in office for plenty of years. Why can't the just do the same things the Republicans do, but make it their agenda and get it done? Sounds like they haven't done as good of a job as Republicans when it comes to meeting their agendas.
But if you make more than me, and have for a long time. then you could have even more assets than I do. Correct?
You're the one who bragged about your assets, then tried to pivot to wages when called out. I'm not playing this game of one-upmanship. The point is about systemic issues, not personal finances.
And nothing says you have to stop doing that. In fact, you can even donate more and cut your lifestyle if it means that much to you. I won't be doing that, but you certainly can.
Again, missing the point entirely. Individual actions don't fix broken systems. That's like saying "just use less water" during a drought while corporations drain aquifers. We need collective action and policy change, not performative personal sacrifice.
Ok, so did Biden reverse that in his 4 years he was in office and controlled both the house and the senate?
Democrats had a razor-thin majority with Manchin and Sinema blocking major reform. Despite that, the Inflation Reduction Act implemented a 15% corporate minimum tax for large corporations and a 1% tax on stock buybacks. This doesn't fully reverse Trump's corporate tax rate cut from 35% to 21%, but it does ensure the biggest companies pay at least 15%. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.
But if that's true and if more people believed that as you do, you should have easily won the election.
Elections aren't won on policy merits anymore (unfortunately). They're won on emotion, propaganda, and increasingly, misinformation. Most voters can't even name what policies they're voting for. Plus, our system structurally advantages rural conservative voters through the Electoral College.
So how come the Democrats didn't work on that?
They have been. From campaign finance reform to voting rights, Democrats consistently push against a system rigged by gerrymandering, voter suppression, and dark money. All of which Republicans fight to preserve.
But Democrats have been in office for plenty of years. Why can't the just do the same things the Republicans do, but make it their agenda and get it done?
Because Democrats try to govern responsibly while Republicans obstruct then blame Democrats for not fixing the problems. Look at McConnell blocking Merrick Garland then ramming through Barrett. Look at Republicans tanking infrastructure bills under Obama then crying about crumbling bridges. The asymmetry is the point.
You’re the one who bragged about your assets, then tried to pivot to wages when called out.
I wasn't bragging. Someone asked me about my "self-reliance bs" and I explained to them how and why I think I live up to my version of that
The point is about systemic issues, not personal finances.
That Democrats still haven't fixed, despite all their years in power. And if Trump is doing such terrible thigns, then in 4 years, you all can change everything back the way you want it.
This doesn’t fully reverse Trump’s corporate tax rate cut from 35% to 21%, but it does ensure the biggest companies pay at least 15%. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.
Great! Then again, in 4 years, you guys can get voted back in and fix all that. So there ya go!
Because Democrats try to govern responsibly while Republicans obstruct then blame Democrats for not fixing the problems.
But if that was such a great idea, they they should have won the election. So maybe that's now what people were wanting.
That Democrats still haven't fixed, despite all their years in power. And if Trump is doing such terrible thigns, then in 4 years, you all can change everything back the way you want it.
Classic bad faith argument. You're ignoring the structural hurdles I just explained about Manchin, Sinema, and GOP obstruction. As for "just wait 4 years" – that's exactly the problem. The damage Trump does in 4 years will take decades to fix. You can't just "change everything back" when you've gutted regulatory agencies, stacked courts with ideologues, and sold off public resources to private interests.
Great! Then again, in 4 years, you guys can get voted back in and fix all that. So there ya go!
Notice how you've completely abandoned defending Trump's policies on their merits? You're basically admitting they're harmful but saying "who cares, we won." This is exactly what I meant by "fuck you, I got mine" politics. You don't care about making things better for everyone, just "winning."
But if that was such a great idea, they they should have won the election. So maybe that's now what people were wanting.
Again with this circular logic. Winning elections doesn't prove your policies are better for people – it proves your messaging resonated emotionally. Most Trump voters can't even name his specific policy positions beyond vague "make America great" rhetoric.
You've consistently dodged every substantive point about actual policy impacts. Instead, you fall back on "we won, so we must be right" – which is exactly the kind of shallow, tribal thinking that's destroying any hope of productive political discourse in this country.
You’re ignoring the structural hurdles I just explained about Manchin, Sinema, and GOP obstruction
So how come the Democrats don't create that sort of "obstruction" for the GOP?
The damage Trump did in 4 years will take decades to fix.
Seems like a better Dem presidential campaign should have fixed that. Seems like they may have failed you a bit in that respect.
Notice how you’ve completely abandoned defending Trump’s policies on their merits?
I'm not a fucking political strategist with a degree in political science. I don't give a fuck. I like him. I like what he's doing. And enough other people do, that they voted for him. Maybe take that into consideration
Instead, you fall back on “we won, so we must be right” – which is exactly the kind of shallow, tribal thinking that’s destroying any hope of productive political discourse in this country.
Says the guy who wants to turn a conservative community into a meme community and make fun of Republicans. So why would I take anything you are saying seriously? I mean, did making fun of republicans work for you all in the election?
All I see is you mocking people who don't agree with you or who you deem to be too stupid to make the right choices.
I've seen some democrat strategists stay that the Dem downfall started by not taking republican voters seriously, and indeed mocking them, as a strong root cause of why you lost.
So do you think advocating making fun of Republicans rather than strengthing democratic community building is the best way to go?
Get da fuckouttahere with your "Oh you're not having serious political discourse" bs, when you have made it your mission to make fun of republicans in a conservative community.
Now just becaue I point that out, don't that you have really had a "gotcha" moment with me. Because I don't really care THAT much.
In fact, I am exactly one of those who went by their gut, voted for Trump with glee just got get back and you all for mocking republicans.
Lemmy jerks making fun of every conservative was the in the forefront of my brain when I voted.
And no regrets at all. I'm happy to see it all burn down and start from scratch.
I'm not even a fucking republican. I'm an anarchist.
You all deserve Trump.
So how come the Democrats don't create that sort of "obstruction" for the GOP?
Democrats aren't saints, theyre imperfect allies at best But there's a fundamental difference in approach. ds generally try to govern and pass legislation, while McConnell openly declared his primary goal was blocking Obama's agenda. When Ds obstruct, it's usually on specific harmful policies, not a total blanket refusal to let the other side accomplish anything. There's a difference between principled opposition and sabotaging government function.
Seems like a better Dem presidential campaign should have fixed that. Seems like they may have failed you a bit in that respect.
Oh look, now you're blaming Democrats for Republican destruction. Classic abuser logic: "Why did you make me hurt you?"
I'm not a fucking political strategist with a degree in political science. I don't give a fuck. I like him. I like what he's doing. And enough other people do, that they voted for him. Maybe take that into consideration
Finally some honesty! "I don't give a fuck about policy" - we've reached the core of MAGA politics. You "like what he's doing" but can't defend any of it on substance. Pure emotion and tribalism.
Says the guy who wants to turn a conservative community into a meme community and make fun of Republicans.
Everyone needs spaces to vent and joke. Conservatives have entire media empires dedicated to spreading their misinformation and conspiracy theories. Fox News, OAN, countless Facebook groups and Telegram channels, even Lemmy instances, yet you're mad about some memes on Lemmy who hasn't even broken 50k MAUs?
I've seen some democrat strategists stay that the Dem downfall started by not taking republican voters seriously, and indeed mocking them, as a strong root cause of why you lost.
The idea that Democrats lost because we weren't nice enough to people actively supporting policies that harm vulnerable communities is laughable. "I voted to take away healthcare from millions because someone was mean to me online" isn't the flex you think it is.
IN fact, I am exactly one of those who went by their gut, voted for Trump with glee just got get back and you all for mocking republicans.
So you're admitting you voted to hurt people out of spite? And somehow we're the bad guys for making memes?
I'm not even a fucking republican. I'm an anarchist.
No actual anarchist would support the most authoritarian president in modern history. You're not an anarchist; you're just angry and nihilistic.
You all deserve Trump.
And there it is. The mask comes off. This was never about policy or principles. It's about hurting people you don't like. Thanks for finally being honest about it.
Finally some honesty! “I don’t give a fuck about policy” - we’ve reached the core of MAGA politics.
so you think every fucking democrat on Lemmy is some political Philosophy input and is as fucking nerdy about politics as you are? Get the fuck outta here with that.
Again, a perfect example of why you all lost. You insist that everyone has to be at your level of intelligence or they are not worth anything.
Keep it up. You'll lose the next election too. And I'll laugh again.
You’re not an anarchist; you’re just angry and nihilistic.
I'm not angry at all. I'm having a fucking great time. You are angry. I'm not. At all.
And there it is. The mask comes off. It’s about hurting people you don’t like.
Guess Lemmy shouldn't be so quick to do jerky things like turn conservative communities into meme communites that make fun of conservatives.
How that work out in the last election?
I never wore a mask. I have no desire to hurt people. But I do love how shocked you all were that your holier-than-thou attitude didn't win any elections.
And here's the thing. I think you actually know a lot of it was how democrat attitudes are percieved. Like you said, elections are won just by policy. It's people skills.
Maybe all the fed people laid off can "learn to code." You all will totally help them out! No worries.
You fucking laugh and mock people who aren't in your little bubble. Now you can handle what the results of that is.
Rather than just wait/ask that a good conservative mod comes, you decide to mock conservatives. Just like what you are doing with this community.
I promise you this: Whether I am on Lemmy or not, banned or not, I will never ever ever EVER vote for a Democrat. Because of what I have seen on here. I would rather watch the world burn down and start from sticks and stones.
You specifically mock and make fun of people who aren't in your little circle. And take glee in the mocking.
YOU, yes, YOU deserve Trump. And I will fucking laugh about it every single day until Trump leaves office.
Nah, I'm not mad. I'm laughing and I feel like it's totally just that you all got your asses handed to you.
so you think every fucking democrat on Lemmy is some political Philosophy input and is as fucking nerdy about politics as you are?
No, but most people who vote care about at least some policies that affect their lives. You've spent this entire conversation dodging every policy point while openly declaring vote purely based on spite. Huge difference.
You insist that everyone has to be at your level of intelligence or they are not worth anything.
Never said that. I said policy matters more than tribal politics. You're the one who keeps bringing up intelligence, which is telling. Nobody said you need a PHD level understanding of politics, just reading up on the policies themselves should not be that huge of an ask.
I'm not angry at all. I'm having a fucking great time.
Your all-caps rants, excessive swearing, and "I will never ever ever EVER vote for a Democrat" suggest otherwise. People having a great time don't usually type like they're screaming or have to constantly say "I'm not mad" who are you trying to convince?
Guess Lemmy shouldn't be so quick to do jerky things like turn conservative communities into meme communites that make fun of conservatives.
You're still hung up on a meme community while openly supporting politicians who are actively stripping rights from marginalized people. One of these things is not like the other.
Rather than just wait/ask that a good conservative mod comes, you decide to mock conservatives.
There's a difference between mocking harmful ideas and mocking people. Conservative policies have real, harmful impacts on vulnerable communities. That deserves criticism, and memes are a form of criticism.
I would rather watch the world burn down and start from sticks and stones.
And there it is again. You claim you "have no desire to hurt people" then immediately say you'd rather see the world burn than vote for someone who might help others. The contradiction is stunning.
Your all-caps rants, excessive swearing, and “I will never ever ever EVER vote for a Democrat” suggest otherwise.
Nope. lol
You’re still hung up on a meme community while openly supporting politicians who are actively stripping rights from marginalized people.
Not hung up on it all. It's just that it shows how much you aren't to be taken seriously--you are just anti-republican, regardless of policy. You don't take me seriously and I certainly don't take you seriously.
There’s a difference between mocking harmful ideas and mocking people.
And you actually mock people.
Conservative policies have real, harmful impacts on vulnerable communities.
In your opinion. But you didn't win the election, so not everyone agrees with you.
There was a criticism of your actions not fitting the spirit of the community by you wanting to take it over. And you replied that there was no Lemmy rule that you had to follow the spirit of a community that you took over.
Which means that you have no intention on letting conservative voices be heard.
So following your logic, there is no Lemmy rule that I have to defend every news article I post. I post links to news articles. Nothing makes you click on them. I have every right to do it and I will continue to do it.
You lost. That's it. Lemmy's opinion isn't shared by the majority of the public.
You keep posting jokes, and I'll keep posting articles. Let's see which party wins the next election.
Nope. lol
Great counterargument. Very convincing.
Not hung up on it all. It's just that it shows how much you aren't to be taken seriously--you are just anti-republican, regardless of policy.
I've repeatedly tried to discuss specific policies throughout this entire conversation. You're the one who admitted "I don't give a fuck" about policy and just "like Trump." The projection is astounding.
And you actually mock people.
Says the person who's spent this entire thread mocking "Lemmy jerks" and celebrating others' suffering.
In your opinion. But you didn't win the election, so not everyone agrees with you.
Electoral victory doesn't determine objective reality. Policies that remove healthcare, cut food assistance, and target marginalized groups cause measurable harm regardless of how many people voted for them. That's not opinion its documented fact.
Which means that you have no intention on letting conservative voices be heard.
Conservative voices are heard everywhere Faux News, OAN, Congress, the White House, the Supreme Court, Truth Social. The idea that conservatives are being silenced while controlling most levels of government is absurd victimhood.
So following your logic, there is no Lemmy rule that I have to defend every news article I post.
Post whatever you want. Just don't be surprised when people call out misinformation or propaganda.
You lost. That's it. Lemmy's opinion isn't shared by the majority of the public.
You keep coming back to "you lost" like it's some devastating gotcha. Electoral outcomes don't determine moral rightness. Segregation was once popular to.
You keep posting jokes, and I'll keep posting articles. Let's see which party wins the next election.
And there it is you've reduced politics to a team sport (yet again) where "winning" matters more than the actual impact on people's lives
celebrating others’ suffering.
When have I ever celebated "suffering"?
Electoral outcomes don’t determine moral rightness
But it's your OPINION. Some don't agree with you and they have their own moral rightness.
Like I said, you gone and keep posting your memes. I'll keep posting links to news articles. And we'll see who wins next election.
When have I ever celebated "suffering"?
You said: "I will never EVER vote for a Democrat. I would rather watch the world burn" and "You deserve Trump. And I will fucking laugh about it every single day." You're explicitly celebrating policies that cause harm because they upset people you don't like.
But it's your OPINION. Some don't agree with you and they have their own moral rightness.
No, it's not just opinion that removing healthcare causes suffering. It's not just opinion that cutting food assistance increases hunger. These are measurable outcomes with real human consequences. When people lose access to insulin and die, that's not a difference of opinion, it's preventable tragedy.
This "everything is just an opinion" stance is a way to avoid engaging with the actual human impacts of policies. It's a cop-out that lets you ignore the consequences of what you support.
Like I said, you gone and keep posting your memes. I'll keep posting links to news articles. And we'll see who wins next election.
And we're back to treating politics like a sport rather than something that determines whether people live or die. You've made it abundantly clear that "winning" matters more to you than the welfare of your fellow citizens.
Post whatever you want. But don't pretend your motivation is anything other than tribal identity and spite.
“I will never EVER vote for a Democrat. I would rather watch the world burn”
That's not "celebrating" suffering. lol
You’re explicitly celebrating policies that cause harm because they upset people you don’t like.
I, and many others, don't think these policies cause harm. Do you think every person that voted for Trump celebrates suffering?! And if so, so the majority of the voting public, celebrates suffering?! lol
Post whatever you want. But don’t pretend your motivation is anything other than tribal identity and spite.
Says the guy who wants to stifle spaces for conservatives so you can turn them into mocking and memes. You don't want to hear opposing opinions. You want to mock and meme. So do that. How did it work out for ya all the last election?
I could get by just fine if society shut down tomorrow.
only morons think this shit.
bet you probably believe you have all the medicine you could need, natural disasters won't come for you, there will never be a blight on your crops or a problem with your solar array. i bet you even hand crafted your own panels and mined the material yourself.
what a fuckin moron
How would you know? You don't even live in America! lol
Lol keep licking the soles of my boots baby boy
I can't, because I don't leave the US. So I can't get to you. I wouldn't wanna go to Russia just to meet you anyway.
You're really hung up on this it's almost like you're insecure about your citizenship. Definitely not American, your post history makes that clear
Says the russian plant. Name a single article that is foreign that makes it "clear" I am not american. We can see what you're doing. You're not fooling anyone. We know you're not American, brah.
Lmfaooo how does any of that show any sort of your citizenship you dumbass, you're spewing propaganda most Americans don't care about and supporting two unpopular pedophiles. Trump had less than 20% of americans vote for him and his approval rating is constantly shit.
I literally discuss owning American stocks on Lemmy you stupidhead
lmfao crying at this because nobody buys you as America hilarious go back to your shit hole kid
Trump had less than 20% of americans vote for him and his approval rating is constantly shit.
And yet he won. Hmmm...
Guess you don't know how American elections work since you aren't even American.
Awkward way to admit you're a moron but sure 😂
You understand that you can't plan a tax system around the few people who may not need it, right?
And look at you supporting Trump. Don't want to let all that prepping go to waste with a functioning country huh?
I love Trump. Having the time of my life. How are things going with you?
congratulations! 🎉 you showed them all! you're definitely not bitter about it are you?
such a shame your kids and past friends won't talk to you anymore since you became obsessed with child molesters, transgenderism, and defunding children's lunch programs. don't sweat it... at least you owned the libs!
congratulations! 🎉 you showed them all! you’re definitely not bitter about it are you?
Why would I be bitter? I like Trump. So I'm not bitter at all. I'm doing awesome.
such a shame your kids and past friends won’t talk to you anymore since you became obsessed with child molesters, transgenderism, and defunding children’s lunch programs.
My kids and friends still talk to me plenty. Nothing has changed. And I'm not "obsessed" with anything. I posted a link to an AP News article. If you have a problem with the article, bring it up with them.
The majority of the voting public voted for Trump. And not your candidate. So Trump won. Accept it.
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