A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff
Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.
We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.
Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.
A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.
Yes, it's a PCM meme, but still accurate as fuck.
I’ve always wondered why conservatives harbor so much hate for immigrants and not the business owners taking advantage of vulnerable populations
That second part won’t go away, they’ll just make a different vulnerable group
We want them gone too, it's just harder to go after companies.
So going after the people being exploiters instead is constructive?
You can do both. But as I said, it's harder to go after them.
Look what happened to the agricultural situation in the UK after brexit: a large portion of the east EU citizens left and there was no one who wanted to pick crops.
Now they can't get seasonal workers because of visa issues.
Well they could simply raise wages
Then the farmers go broke. Or prices could rise allowing the farmers to be paid better, and in turn pay better wages.
I don't want any damn Mexicans working low paid agriculture jobs and paying taxes! I want MY taxes to go toward the private prisons that will house them before more of my taxes go toward deporting them! I'm prepared to pay even more for groceries so get ICE rolling.
I don't understand. Is the statement incorrect? Or are you hoping that the wages for pickers will go up enough for "real Americans" to take the jobs?
I'm hoping the wages will go up, yes.
why hope when you can vote for people who will pass laws to make the wages go up?
Most people did.
most people didn't vote.
True, I should correct my statement: more people who voted did than didn't.
Did they though? Will we get laws to raise wages?
Yeah probably
Ah, so you're back to hope, got it.
Oh my gosh y'all are so ridiculous 😂😂
Is it a likely progression? And how long do you believe it will take? Also, I'm curious what you are basing your hope on and what the you believe the knock-on effects will be. It would be good to know if something similar happened in the US or another country in order to compare.
I'm not an psychic, but I'd imagine the more we deport, the more wages will go up. Hopefully in 4 years, we'll be in a much better place.
The biggest side effect would be higher rates for fruit/veggies and for landscaping. But I'd pay extra for fruit I know is grown ethically. I already do, as much as I try.
Setting aside all the other issues, if you think creating a worker shortage (which might increase wages short term) will do anything good for your economy: it won't.
Historically economic growth is pretty closely tied to population growth. More hands create more value. Removing hands will make the remaining hands more valuable but there is still less value created. And the people that hold economic power aren't going to give up their share easily, so one way or another it will eventually mean even less for the workers.
There was population growth in the late 1800s, it wasn't until the population got paid more that the economy took off.
While that's true, the capitalists where getting richer and richer even before the big economic growth. They don't really care. Also, the wage increases had to be hard fought for by a united working class. I don't see american workers unite right now to fight the rich.
Without exploitable labor employers will have to pay employees more. Workers won't have to fight, they can do nothing and wages will still increase.
They can move production to places with available labour. You know for example the places you deported all that labour to.
Which is where the tariffs come in. Helps balance everything out.
By making the products more expensive while your wages stagnate? How's that balancing anything out?
Why will wages stagnante?
A rising tide raises all boats or in this case wages.
Not if the work follows the workers outside of the US
You must have missed the reply two comments up.
You must have missed my response to that
I read your non-response, which is why I asked how wages will stagnate to your response to tarrifs.
The argument was that wages rise if labour is scarce. My counter is that labour will just be moved outside with the people, thus countering the scarcity, thus making wages stagnate rather than increase.
Somehow tariffs are supposed to balance this out. Which is really the nonsense in all of this.
Somehow tariffs are supposed to balance this out. Which is really the nonsense in all of this.
So you have no rebuttal to tarrifs stopping companies from moving manufacturing outside the US.
Yes, to some extend they can achieve that, if they are high enough to cancel out the wage differences.
But they have a lot of additional effects. Companies with small margins that import ressources will have to raise prices to stay profitable, others will do it because they can riding the wave of those that must. All in all tarrifs just raise prices.
Thus the nominally raised wages stagnate in buying power.
So either the wages stagnate without the tarrifs because the work follows the cheap labour or they stagnate because tarrifs raise the prices alongside with the rising wages. The tarrifs achieve nothing for the buying power of consumers.
Creating an under class of people doesn't help. Look at the South vs the North. The south had slaves, the north largely did not. The north has much more industry.
I'm not an psychic, but I'd imagine the more we deport, the more wages will go up
I think it's a reasonable assumption, but the reason I was asking for the basis for that hope is because I was hoping you had done some research and found some data to base that assumption on. It could have been a solid basis for it. In the UK, where Brexit was touted to achieve the same goal, the wages did go up (not a very good source, but well) however they ended up asking for the pickers, truck drivers, and handiworkers to return (EuroNews 2021, BBC 2023, Le Monde).
If you were to take a look at Germany (3rd biggest economy in the world), it struggles to get workers for elderly care and instead of increasing wages to attract more people, they are instead making easier to hire abroad e.g India.
The biggest side effect would be higher rates for fruit/veggies and for landscaping. But I'd pay extra for fruit I know is grown ethically. I already do, as much as I try.
I agree that the cost of food and landscaping will go up, which could be troubling for some who hoped for the opposite. Given how wages have not risen at the same rate as inflation, it is difficult to share your hope for increased wages - be it for the pickers and landscapers or the people paying for the produce and services. But, I may be wrong, I'm not a psychic either.
I do commend you for willing to pay more for ethically grown (and harvested) fruit. Whether your fellow countrymen and women are is yet to be seen.
In conclusion, my fear is that while there might be mass deportations and a real chance of wages going up, IMO the most likely outcomes are
Whether those are all good, whether they happen together or separately, I don't know, but my hopes aren't very high that the total outcome will be positive.
Good luck though.
y’know i’m honestly a little relieved that other conservatives are just as willfully ignorant as the ones i have to interact with in person.