A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
Rules
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/21049862
The only numbers I will ever spell are one and zero, and only when using them as a pronoun, or for emphasis, respectively.
Is there ever a reason to not to use symbols when dealing with numbers? Why would "fourteen whatevers" ever be preferable to "14 whatevers". It's just so much easier to read numbers as symbols, not spelled out.
(Caveat, not including multipliers, like "273 billion").
In nineteen ninety eight The Undertaker threw Mankind off Hell In A Cell, and he plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.
**Sixteen feet
For manufacturing I've taken to using spelled out numbers when quantities and names both use numbers. Four 4s rather than 4 4s. Makes it harder for someone to speed through an email and get the completey wrong information.
Zero.
One.
Zero.
One.
Zero.
One.
One.
Zero.
Zero.
One.
🎶The humans are dead! 🎵
Next you’re gonna ask me to use actual scientific notation instead of to the most relevant 3 decimal points. I will not use your bullshit centimeters, that’s just 10 mms
Absolutely, mm > cm all the way. Other than you putting s at the end of mm, we don't take the Lord's (metric) name in vain around here.
I do feel kind of sorry for East Asia though, since their languages seperate at intervals of 10⁴, rather than 10³. The giga and mega prefixes just make no sense there. 1 GW = 10,0000,0000 W and 1 MW = 100,0000.
Language strikes again
Not sure, but perhaps they would prefer a prefix of 10^-4^ rather than mm (10^-3^).
Wtf I've never heard of this, what a cursed way to notate large numbers
It's not cursed, it's just a different way of grouping. Nothing about grouping in multiples of 10³ is a more natural grouping, were just more used to it.
And I'm pointing out how metric prefixes are actually euro-centric, and that's annoying for them. But there's nothing fundamentally worse about breaking digits in groups of 4, rather than 3
1,000,000,000,000 = 1,0000,0000,0000 (10^12^) [Meme of black and white muscular arms embracing.]
Look up the indian system, now that's actually cursed.
As a mathematician, I refuse to do this.
Stay strong friend 🫡, and don't you let them take your numerals from you
Not just an engineer thing though. Everyone finds it obnoxious.
"One and eight hundred and fifty two thousandths".
Or
"1.852"
You get to decide what's efficient to communicate a specific value based on the criticality of precision and the format of communication.
Like it or not, but peak-compatibility IS peak-efficiency when it comes to language.
I especially hate what we the Czechs do. We mostly read numbers the same (21 = twenty one), but then once every blue moon some dimwit says 21 like "one and twenty" like he's fucking German or something. German is bad enough, but why do we have to mix it???
I thought it was french that did that
French is even more special.
Tho like I said before, it's not perfectly accurate. In Czech 90 + 2 is the official way, but many people around Prague and closer to Germany do in fact occasionally say 2 + 90.
1.852 all the way in every single context. I will die on this hill haha
We die on that hill together, brother!
What kills me is when people will mix the two in a single context.
"Between eight and 13 percent"
NO. If you're writing one number in digits, you need to write them all the same way.
Sometimes it’s actually better to mix them.
Example from Purdue Owl:
Unclear: The club celebrated the birthdays of 6 90-year-olds who were born in the city.
Clearer: The club celebrated the birthdays of six 90-year-olds who were born in the city.
But unlike eight 13 is above ten
But 8% and 13% are both below 10
So is 999%
And I've just learned percent is under two layers of keyboard menus so that's just fantastic.
Do you write thirteen per cent?
This kills me, but its not as bad as the habit of new articles/print authors to switch between first and last names of the same person within a few sentences.
They will introduce Jeff Snoms, and then refer to them has "Jeff" and "Snoms" interchangeably for no discernable reason. It gets really maddening when they are doing it with 3 or 4 people, so suddenly the story has 2x as many characters involved.
Wait till you read russian novels, where everyone's got 3 names and 2 official nickname everyone is expected to know...
not to mention the fact that it's written in russian!
Engineer here.
Typically when I type out professional emails or documents that contain numerical values, I write out the number followed by the digits in brackets if it is ten [10] or below for cases of amount, unless I am listing out the counts of items, then I only use digits.
"The updated electrical design will require three [3] new, pad-mount 500kVA transformers to replace the three [3] existing 225kVA transformers,each located on floors four, five, and six."
Can I ask why, though? I'm also an engineer and I just never spell it out, if I can avoid it (so far, luckily, haven't had push back since I'm on delivery and not proposals or anything like that.)
To me, it's just more annoying to read it as words, and no matter what you do, mistakes can still happen, including when it's spelled out.
Just my 2 cents.
I only spell out numbers as the first word of a sentence because idk how to capitalize in that situation.
I work in MEP and our emails are always considered legal documents as they can be used as evidence if ever we are taken to court. So we always treat them very technical and try to over explain everything so clients/plan reviewers/contractors can't misinterpret. It's kind of an old school thing, but the head of our department is an old school guy.
u mean your "2¢"...
Ur*
ur*
Context is everything, IMO.
In engineering work, numbers should always be digits. In prose, numbers should be spelled out.
Breakfast at the Thompson's was a busy affair; 12 eggs and 6 rounds of toast for their 3 sets of boistrous twins.
Compared to
Breakfast at the Thompson's was a busy affair; twelve eggs and six rounds of toast for their three sets of boistrous twins.
To me it's pretty clear which of those reads better and more naturally as prose; digits really 'jump out' on the page, and while that is great for engineering texts, it is incongruent and distracting for prose.
Somewhat relevant to your example, recipes should have numbers in digits too. (But then again recipes are basically an engineering text.)
recipes are basically an engineering text
I would love to see more systematic recipe formats.
Around 15-20 years ago there was a website called "Cooking for Engineers" that used a table format for recipes that was pretty clever, and a very useful diagram for how to visualize the steps (at least for someone like me). I don't think he ever updated the site to be mobile friendly but you can see it here:
He describes the recipe in a descriptive way, but down at the bottom it lists ingredients and how they go together in a chart that shows what amounts to use, what ingredients go into a particular step, what that step is, and how the product of that step feeds into the next step.
Oh damn that’s a sensical format. I love it and may put my recipes in it once I start writing them properly
I was taught you only spell out numbers ten and under, so I would write it:
Breakfast at the Thompson’s was a busy affair; 12 eggs and six rounds of toast for their three sets of boisterous twins.
Three and four hundred fifteen quintillion five hundred ninety two quadrillion six hundred fifty three trillion five hundred eighty nine billion seven hundred ninety three million two hundred thirty eight thousand four hundred sixty three sextillionths
Is less than ten
There are exceptions to every rule. Sometimes it ends up being "between five and 15" which is psychotic.
Caveat, not including multipliers, like "273 billion"
You mean 273e9?
Any number that I write down is a number. I am not writing novels, the numbers I write down are supposed to be easy you find. You look through the document to find numbers, that is easy to do.