I'm gonna start selling smart TVs and call my company Orwellian Enterprises.
this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2024
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Funny that you're concerned about your TV "phone home" when you're using a Roku which is the worst offender for that sort of thing.
You're already soaking wet but afraid of the rain.
If that sort of thing already concerns you, then you need to get rid of the Roku and find something else. Like an Nvidia shield or media box with Kodi.
For privacy reasons I don't want my TV to EVER have access to my wifi.
I think the same.
But if you can't avoid it and it is only 1 time, there's a workaround:
Use your phone.
Switch on the mobile hotspot.
Rename the hotspot Wifi-name, and it's password.
Then set up your TV with this temp Wifi.
Then rename things back on your phone.
In addition, you can force your cellphone to GSM/2G (ie: super slow internet).
Depending on what your TV does when it "activates", if it just needs to "activate/register" - it should be fine. If it needs to "update/upgrade/add a bunch of crapware" - Your internet will be so slow, you can turn it off before it's finished (note: there is a slim chance that, this could also put your TV in a broken state - if it does, simply do a factory reset and try again)
Bought a Panasonic with Android TV about a year or two ago, and used it for a while solely as a screen for my Kodi box, no internet connection. Worked perfectly. The TV's image quality leaves something to be desired (especially backlight uniformity), though.
What the hell sort of TV are you looking at that requires an online connection to use it as a simple display device?
That’s a serious question. I want to avoid whatever brand you’re talking about like the plague.
Some food for thought. Vizio made more money selling ads and the data from their customers than selling the actual TVs.
With TVs you are paying to be the product.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/10/22773073/vizio-acr-advertising-inscape-data-privacy-q3-2021
Sadly the so-called "smart TV" is becoming the norm. Companies add unnecessary crap to TVs that's often as slow as your car's factory infotainment system, and when they feel like not upgrading the software anymore for security issues in a few years, it's a permanent security hazard until you disconnect it from the network.
I have a Vizio TV from several years ago with Yahoo branded smart functions (that should date it) that I need to factory reset because I can't find the WiFi password erase.
Unfortunately i think its becoming more a thing, so you have to be careful of future updates as some companies are realising they can put ads on your menu screen now
Most brands make it seem impossible to setup without connecting. I got a free TCL/Roku and it was such a massive headache to avoid connecting that I connected it. I just skip the ARC HDMI and pretend it's just as good since I don't use the built in apps. ARC ports read your content to "better serve you content" (ads)
Roku is horrible. I bought a Roku Soundbar (speakers) for my TV and for reasons unknown, I had to (temporarily) hook it up to the internet to "activate" and download the firmware.
It's such a horrible glimpse of the consumers future.
I thought LG and Sony and a few of the other big players still had the self respect to sell TVs that can just be.. you know… TVs
LG C series OLEDs are a pain. If you connect them to wifi, they'll give you Apple TV and other "promotions" as pop up notifications at random times.
These TVs also have Bluetooth which cannot be turned off and any device can try to connect to it, giving you a non intrusive pop up of 20% of your screen area.
And their customer support is absolute garbage. In my area, you'll have to call them a few times before anyone picks up, then there is a 50% chance that the clerk doesn't speak English nor your local language. Sometimes you'll give up on calling them, as no one responds. You'll be happy to know that they will call you back in about a month.
These TVs also have Bluetooth
It's really nifty to wardrive those and play Tool at max.
You can fix the always-on BT wirh a screwdriver, can’t you?
I hope most of these have discrete hardware, but i won't disregard SoCs...
Not answering your question, but avoid Roku like the plague
I bought a cheap Vizio, and never connected it or let it connect to anything. All it does is power on, and go to HDMI-1. My pc it connects to does everything else.
If you're concerned about privacy on your tv, I would recommend migrating away from Roku as well.
Ditto, I did the same. FYI, you can't use bluetooth or screencast unless you connect it to the internet, and I didn't really need those features.
I have a pair of LG tvs that didn’t require any activation. Might wanna take a look at those?
Definitely stay away from Samsung. All my encounters with Samsung have required some type of sign up-activation process.
I’ve seen some users here also recommend checking out monitors as tvs but I’m not well versed in that area.
While I overall like my lg tv they have some shitty things from both a tech perspective (can’t play or pass through dts audio bc of licensing bullshit though this may not be the case on newer models) and an anti consumer perspective (data collection and ads)
On the first point you can circumvent by using e-arc and avr
On the second point you have to dig through settings and make sure sales of your personal data is not enabled (it is by default and can be re-enabled with updates)
You can also block the following in your router/dns:
us.ad.lgsmartad.com us.info.lgsmartad.com ngfts.lge.com lgad.cjpowercast.com edgesuite.net us.rdx2.lgtvsdp.com us.info.lgsmartad.com us.ibs.lgappstv.com us.lgtvsdp.com ad.lgappstv.com smartshare.lgtvsdp.com ibis.lgappstv.com us.ad.lgsmartad.com lgad.cjpowercast.com.edgesuite.net ngfts.lge.com yumenetworks.com smartclip.net smartclip.com
snu.lge.com su.lge.com lgtvonline.lge.com
This will block the ads in the os as well as hamper their data collection, somewhat. The last three specifically will also block updates.
You can also root webos in some scenarios which gives you certain options to block ads in YouTube and such
On one hand don’t support TVs that do this anti consumer bullshit. On the other hand good luck buying a tv in 2024 that doesn’t pull some kind of anti consumer bullshit? Any tv with google/android tv, Roku, etc built in is just as bad or worse. Most if not all manufacturers engage in OS level data collection.
I just have my LG C1 locked down to LAN only connection, in my router settings put it on house arrest. 😂
That way it doesn’t whine about no connection and wardrive for open connections. No ads, no crap, and just works without being able to phone home.
Next “TV” Will definitely be a short throw projector or commercial display (which is the codeword for “dumb”) TV today.
Commercial displays usually don't have a very good picture quality. They are intended to be used as signs and are optimized for brightness.
A good projector is definitely the way to go if you have the room for one.
Alternative perspective: Buy the most intrusive, ad-subsidized set you can find and disconnect/block it so you get all of the benefit and none of the privacy invasion?
Ensure it works offline before buying would be my only advice here. Also don’t be surprised if it still has ads, I know android tv can have ads without connecting to the internet because it’ll have them cached from a fresh install. Adblocking on android tv is a pain because the caching of ad content can make you think it’s not working
Ugh. This is why we can’t have nice things.
You can, they just cost more.
This isn’t really true, they don’t write a separate os for the fancier TVs. The $5000 83” oled still does all this. It’s not as bad as the $75 37” lcd that’s heavily subsidized but that’s only partially because of less intrusive ads. The ads are still there, just not as much, the data collection is still there, and the tv is just runs smoother because the hardware is generally (a bit) more powerful
I think that even the most expensive TVs have the same OS and data collection
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That's what I ended up doing. A dumb monitor is just fine, as long as you don't need a huuuge screen. The main thing is to find a good external speaker though that doesn't auto-sleep in the middle of one's show...
How old are they? We bought an LG TV 1 or 2 years ago and it has a lot of online features and keeps prompting me to make an account and accept various terms and conditions for their advertising or to let them listen to the microphone and such. I think it's mostly optional but they don't make it easy to opt out
To add to this, my LG C2 kept popping up a message that I could use Alexa with it if I connected it to Wifi.
To kill that message, I did. Now it pops up advertisements in that same way from time to time.
If I take it offline again, I get messages about connecting it again.
It's effectively impossible to kill ads on it.
If you have a modern router you can block WAN connections while allowing LAN connections. This is what I do and it doesn’t give me crap (and bonus, I can interface with it still with home assistant for automations).
My router is an ASUS AX5700, if it matters.
That's an interesting idea. I'll have to see if I can do something of the sort and see if it matters. I have a feeling it'll still pop the stupid messages about connecting to the internet, but maybe I'll get lucky and it won't.
Thanks!
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I haven't gotten my shit together and researched specific models yet, but I've been looking into this a bit myself, and from what I've read, Sceptre appears to be one of the better brands for completely dumb TVs these days.
Can definitely vouch for Sceptre. Have a computer monitor from them and a TV as well. Absolutely love them both. My concern is actually tracking down Sceptre anything though. They’re constantly out of stock on their website
I've seen Sceptre recommended whenever this question pops up. https://www.sceptre.com/
I've also had a lot of fun using a projector in the living room as a display (with blackout curtains on the windows) but it may require some care to make the bulb last longer. And it was a bit annoying trying to figure out how to get audio and video working for consoles/laptops. I think you might need some kind of HDMI splitter and speakers to get audio and video working properly?
Another useful search term is "Display" or "Commercial Display" instead of "TV"
These "Displays" will be TV's without any of the bloatware and spyware, but may be missing features like refresh rates, picture quality, etc.
For example here: https://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-displays
but it may require some care to make the bulb last longer.
LED projectors are a thing now^1^, much smaller and last longer.
^1^ The Pre-loaded key streaming applications. bit kinda worries me.
Most recommendations I get for TV's like this are to buy a display meant for digital signage or conference rooms. They're usually a little more expensive but also made to last. They're also mostly just dumb monitors.
I haven't gone that route yet, but it's on my roadmap. My current "TV"s are just a projector connected to my HTPC and a 32" PC monitor in a similar configuration upstairs.
I’ve heard this and while they are sturdier they generally also have worse panels from an image quality standpoint. If you’re buying a $400 60” lcd tv it probably won’t be all that different but if you’re looking for an oled level tv these panels will be noticeably worse in comparison
Another alternative is projectors. Can be impractical in many scenarios but often come with a pretty barebones OS, especially if you get a proper one and not one of the goofy portable ones they sell for $100
My solution for this is if you absolutely cannot bypass the connect Network to set up function, set up a hotspot on your phone. Let it download it's you know what 150 MB update and then turn off your Wi-Fi hotspot
You could take it a step further and set a temporary network name & password for the hotspot, and then change it back afterwards
that way you can use your hotspot near your TV in the future without worry
There was an article going around that explained how to disable internet connections on various smart TVs. I wish I could find it.
For TVs with Roku built in, the solution was simply to select the option for no internet connection during initial setup. If you’ve already set up your TV, you go to settings and reset it like you’re getting ready to sell the device. That puts you back to initial setup where you can skip the network connection option.
What you can’t do on the Roku tv is tell it you have internet, but then try to use some sort of firewall or network connection to block it from phoning home. The front light on the tv will blink, and when you turn the tv on it will complain that it can’t connect. You have to choose no internet on initial setup if you want it to act like a “dumb” tv.
There was an article going around
I'm surprised there's no wiki on it: TVs, projectors, monitors...
Off the commercial off the shelf "smart" TVs available, I started by looking at the OSes available. Choices were Roku, webOS, Tizen, and Google TV. I immediately ruled out Roku because of their recent changes to terms&conditions. webOS is pretty much limited to LG TVs, and I had bad experiences with LG warranties, so I ruled that out. Tizen (Samsung) was out for similar reasons, so that left me with Google TV. It's... OK. Doesn't require Internet connection to work, and doesn't nag me about it. And it came with a hardware switch to turn off the microphone. Not sure if that's a brand thing (Hisense) or applicable to all Google TV devices, but was reassuring.
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It's been a few years since I last bought a TV, but I've been happy with my Sony. About once or twice a year I get a "software update available" message, which is weird since it has never been connected to any network, but I just dismiss it and continue my regular usage.
never been connected to any network
Any open WiFi nearby?
My LG smart TV from 2017 or so has never been connected to any network.
About two years after I set it up, it went through this phase where every time I powered it on I got a new nag popup about this app, that app, this streaming service, and that streaming service having their "support ended" after which they would no longer work. One after the other. I can only conclude that the thing had fucking suicide timers built into all of its onboard apps to deliberately pull this crap on you regardless of any other factors to try to trick or entice you into buying a new TV.
Needless to say, I did not buy a new TV. Mine has had a PC plugged into it and has since day 1, which serves it all of its content except that which is generated by retro video game consoles.
What a crock of shit.
The last time I activated a TV was in 2022. It was a Sony X85K and it didn't require a connection. I've subsequently only used it with a CCwGTV.
Before that I activated a Samsung U..7300 or something like that in 2020. That didn't require connection either. I also used it with a CCwGTV.
I have two Vizio panels, a 2017 and a 2023. Neither are connected to my network. The 2017 got a couple of firmware updates via wired connection in the first year but I nixed that after an update nearly bricked it. The 2023 will turn itself back on for a few seconds occasionally (just the electronics, not the panel)... possibly looking for an open network but I have no way to verify. Neither complain about a lack of connection unless I accidentally select their streaming input.
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