this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024

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222

23andMe agrees to $30M settlement for breach lawsuit (www.scmagazine.com)

submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

How people are so confident in sharing their DNA, something you cannot change, that you will carry on for your entire life, and that can uniquely identify you with just a small sample, to a private, profit-driven company still amazes me

And the worst part is, even if you're careful about it, all that's needed is a relative doing it and now the company can basically tell most of your family tree

And all for what, knowing the parents of the parents of your parents come from some neighboring country? No shit, Sherlock, people move around

[–] [email protected] 3 points 15 hours ago

My mom did it and paid for a free test for me too. Had them send it to my address. So even though I didn’t use the test I’m in their system, name and all.

[–] [email protected] 66 points 2 days ago (2 children)

What an absolute failure of the legal system to understand the issue at hand and appropriately assign liability.

Here's an article with more context, but tl;dr the "hackers" used credential stuffing, meaning that they used username and password combos that were breached from other sites. The users were reusing weak password combinations and 23andme only had visibility into legitimate login attempts with accurate username and password combos.

Arguably 23andme should not have built out their internal data sharing service quite so broadly, but presumably many users are looking to find long lost relatives, so I understand the rationale for it.

Thus continues the long, sorrowful, swan song of the password.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

Wide-spread adoption of passkeys can't come soon enough.

[+] [email protected] -25 points 2 days ago (1 children)

passwords were maybe the dumbest idea ever invented

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

What is your suggestion for a superior solution to the problems passwords solve?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Passkeys are becoming the industry standard. They are better in nearly every way, but would not have been possible before smartphones.

They are unique for each site, not breachable without also having a users device, not phishable, and can't be weak by design.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 days ago

Agree that passkeys are the direction we seem to be headed, much to my chagrin.

I agree with the technical advantages. Where passkeys make me uneasy is when considering their disadvantages, which I see primarily as:

Lack of user support for disaster recovery - let's say you have a single smartphone with your passkeys and it falls off a bridge. You'd like to replace it but you can't access any of your accounts because your passkey is tied to your phone. Now you're basically locked out of the internet until you're able to set up a new phone and sufficiently validate your identity with your identity provider and get a new passkey.
Consolidating access to one's digital life to a small subset of identity providers. Most users will probably allow Apple/Google/etc to become the single gatekeeper to their digital identity. I know this isn't a requirement of the technology, but I've interacted with users for long enough to see where this is headed. What's the recourse for when someone uses social engineering to reset your passkey and an attacker is then able to fully assume your identity across a wide array of sites?
What does liability look like if your identity provider is coerced into sharing your passkey? In the past this would only provide access to a single account, but with passkeys it could open the door to a collection of your personal info.

There's no silver bullet for the authentication problem, and I don't think the passkey is an exception. What the passkey does provide is relief from credential stuffing, and I'm certain that consumer-facing websites see that as a massive advantage so I expect that eventually passwords will be relegated to the tomes of history, though it will likely be quite a slow process.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

And if you lose your device, get fucked forever!

Passkeys are passwords but worse.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Nope. The private key can be backed up, stored in an online password vault, copied automatically to other devices, whatever.

There are good and simple answers to this issue.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No.

Most people will store in their ecosystem (Microsoft or Apple). Lose your device, recover via logging back into your service. That effectively means that logging in to your ecosystem is your “one password”. Of course you can shield that login with a passkey that sits in another instantiation of your account (laptop, home PC).

The nerds will use a platform-neutral password manager (last pass, 1Password) etc. That is likely to either be protected by a strong password AND a recovery key (to print on paper) OR a passkey stored in your platform ecosystem.

Personally I’m in 1Password, using a very long passphrase and a recovery key (two print outs, kept in two different locations).

If you ONLY use one device to enter your ecosystem you do have some risk if it is passkey secured. The end of the chain ought to be a highly secure password that you never reuse anywhere else (your “one” password). Best to go completely random and write it down on paper.

But the risk of never being able to access your ecosystem are really quite low.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Most people will store in their ecosystem (Microsoft or Apple). Lose your device, recover via logging back into your service.

You'll own nothing and be happy!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah it’s not for me but that’s a different point to “will they be locked out of their passkey storage”.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

It's directly related. If it's in Apple's system... or M$'s systems... They get to control your passkeys (not you). Including arbitrarily locking you out for whatever reason they want. Including "oops our datacenter died". Hell... case and point. I bought new pixel phones (GrapheneOS), Google store didn't charge my card at all, a card that's been associated with my account for at least 10 years now, they marked it as "Suspicious" and locked my entire google account. Talking to support... None of them can even see that my account is locked.

This is what "normal" people will get shoved into. This is not a win for any consumer. It's a win for corporations. They get to see each request you make and use that metadata for themselves.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I'm fine with that as long as it works without my phone, internet or power.

So, a contactless smartcard

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

What are you signing into where you need a password but don't have internet?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

Lan server, air gapped

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

digital wallet?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

We'll its a private key, so just a few kb of data. You can likely put it on all sorts of devices. Most services that use it will require some of the above, so I doubt the usefulness, but the same goes for most passwords.

Im curious how you access your passwords with the above criteria. Are you using a notepad with dozens/hundreds of unique passwords, some kind of dice based randomizer, or just a few passwords for many sites?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

private keys, etc

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

That's literally just a long password that you can never recover your data from when you inevitably lose or forget it (remember we're talking about the majority of users here who do not use password managers).

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

there's literally zero technical reason that a user couldn't reset a private key the same as a password. after all, you just pointed out they are almost the same.

edit: if you'd like to see an example create SSH keys for your GitHub account and then reset them

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's.... Literally just a long password.

I assumed you were talking about a private key as in cryptographic private key, where your data is encrypted on the remote server and your private key is required for it to be decrypted and for you to use it.

If you just talking about something to get into an SSH key then all that is is a longer password.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 23 hours ago

not at all. are you expected to remember it? would it even be possible to memorize for most? not even close to the same thing, passwords have very low entropy which causes all their problems

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Seems like a paltry amount, given what savvy social engineers could do with that data.

If you don't use proper security practices, you should be on the hook for prison time at a minimum.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It should be $0 because this was a credential stuffing attack (Using breached passwords people reused), and affected people who knowingly shared their data with other people.

23&me didn't leak data, they didn't have any database breaches, their infrastructure wasn't compromised due to negligence...etc The majority share of negligence is in the users here.

Yes, they should have MFA, but also no, most sites and services don't force you to use MFA to begin with, and that's not a regulatory requirement anyways.

This is, for the most part, the fault of the folks using terrible security practices such as refusing passwords and sharing their data with other users. And this is a shitty precedent to set where the technical reasons for this event are thrown out the window in favor of the politics of it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Who would you jail? How would you decide whos responsible? You can't jail the entire company.

But with a sufficient size fine you can make everyone at the company regret that decision, directly or indirectly.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Who would I jail? The C-officers. Your shit show, your responsibility. If you can't trust your employees, figure out why or do the work yourself.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago

I've always been hugely in favor of it. It's the one change that could maybe justify their gargantuan salaries -- if your company causes harm and suffering, the leaders absolutely need to be put on the hook.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You punish everyone in proportion to their responsibility

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

But they're not suggesting they be punished at all...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So all the people who actually make the decisions walk away scot-free?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

I didn't say that. However, if delegation is too risky, do the work yourself.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago

Didn't even offer a refund it sounds like.

"Hey, I know we just fucked up and let a ton of personal information out into the wild. As compensation how would you like to keep using us?"