Comradeship // Freechat

2166 readers

28 users here now

Talk about whatever, respecting the rules established by Lemmygrad. Failing to comply with the rules will grant you a few warnings, insisting on breaking them will grant you a beautiful shiny banwall.

A community for comrades to chat and talk about whatever doesn't fit other communities

founded 3 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

Venting, lesser evilism (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

5 comments fedilink hide all child comments

"To let things slide for the sake of peace and friendship when a person has clearly gone wrong, and refrain from principled argument because he is an old acquaintance, a fellow townsman, a schoolmate, a close friend, a loved one, an old colleague or old subordinate. Or to touch on the matter lightly instead of going into it thoroughly, so as to keep on good terms. The result is that both the organization and the individual are harmed. This is one type of liberalism." -Mao Zedong.

I'm tired. I'm tired and I'm sad. I lost a friend because I was advocating against telling people to vote for those who have slaughtered and terrorized their friends and families.

I used to vote blue. I could see where they were coming from, the feeling as though you're contributing to saving lives. The desire for reprieve from the Republicans. If the democrats were truly the lesser evil then I'd vote for them. I'd encourage activism, yes, but I'd vote. It's not as hard for me as it is for less privileged people.

But... https://thebaffler.com/latest/democrats-are-the-real-party-of-war

Time after time, I've given them my vote, and they terrorize other countries. The terror is only redirected. It isn't gone, it isn't even mitigated. By voting for the democrats, I stab the global south in the back. Another friend of mine tried to frame this as a trolley problem. But here's the problem.

These politicians are fucking liars. I can't tell how many people there are on either track. Or even if there are different tracks. Even if the DNC was more proactive about fighting the GOP, then the lever merely determines the trolley's speed. So there I was, seen as a traitor to queer people. And I'm really, really sad. All because I refused to encourage people to vote for the aesthetics of a better USA.

There are so many variables involved that there's objectively a lesser evil among the two, I'd argue. The problem is they're liars. I don't know which it is. And either way I'd still be voting for the slaughter of innocent lives, domestically and abroad. They're too evil. And I'm too sad.

top 5 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"These politicians are fucking liars. I can’t tell how many people there are on either track. Or even if there are different tracks."

Seems to me like you have an excellent grasp of what's happening. I made a similar text post a few months back where I highlighted a related phenomenon. "Sure, Joe Biden is bad, but wouldn't Donald Trump be even worse?" It's never explained how or why Trump would be worse than Biden. It's just a habitual assumption they make about the two parties. Dem equals good, Rep equals bad, and there's not really anything more too it. They struggle immensely with the idea of exploring political action outside of electoralism because they have too much misplaced trust in the system, reason being that acknowledging the failure of the system is a lot more stressful than simply voting and praying that Trump doesn't win another term.

The immune response of liberalism when challenged in this way is just to insist that everything is fine, that the machine is running smoothly and efficiently, and that all the problems people describe every day are imaginary. Upholding the Democrats as an ideal serves this purpose, as does vilifying Republicans, because any good thing that happens can be attributed to Democrats, and any bad thing to Republicans.

Don't stress yourself getting into these arguments either. Not worth it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The people I was arguing against were under no impression the democrats weren't fucking awful and that the system wasn't garbage. They just didn't realize or believe just how awful the democrats are and presented them as a slightly better alternative to the Republicans when I couldn't even agree to that. You're right, I should've kept my mouth shut. I was just trying to do as Mao instructed. And I treasure my remaining friends more for it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 months ago

They probably are aware how awful the system is, but the insidious thing about the party dichotomy is that "a slightly better alternative" is all it needs to work. It frames politics as something to act upon by voting correctly. This is, fundamentally, buying into the assumptions of liberal democracy. Your friends may understand that problems exist, but they likely don't have much of an idea about what to do beyond engaging in this dance.

I also wouldn't be so doom-and-gloom about your prospects with your "former" friends. I'm sure things are fine after one political disagreement. Gay people especially can be a little dramatic. Take it with a grain of salt.

If you find yourself in these discussions in the future, be keenly aware of yourself and the implications of what you say. It's very easy to antagonize someone unintentionally when we butt heads like that. I would try asking questions that expose weaknesses in their worldview. But be subtle when you draw attention to those vulnerabilities. Let them think they noticed it themselves.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

For all their bleating they would rather Trump win than stop the genocide.

If you would like some optimism: it appears the global south is slowly turning off that tap of superexploitation from the west and their vassal satellites; subsequently these outdated neoliberal economies are imploding from within as they increasingly do not have that subsidy of surplus value.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 months ago

So there I was, seen as a traitor to queer people. And I’m really, really sad. All because I refused to encourage people to vote for the aesthetics of a better USA.

Seems by the flag by your name you're trans (I'm trans too). And fuck that shit ("traitor to queer people").

Who's the traitor? Doesn't the Palestinian LGBT community deserve some loyalty too? Or those in the Donbass, or in Venezuela, or Syria, or the countless other places the US is actively terrorizing?

The Biden regime has been locking up and terrorizing migrants at the border at a worse rate than Trump, too. Doesn't the LGBT community within such migrant groups- who FWIW probably make up a disproportionate share of the migrant population for various reasons- deserve some loyalty?

What loyalty exactly are they thinking of, here? The loyalty to the party that maybe will wave a little rainbow flag here and there while doing as little as possible to actually improve the lives of LGBT people within the imperial cores, who will never fight for LGBT rights in any way remotely akin to how they fight for genocidaire (Zionist, etc) rights, in any way remotely akin to how they fight to step on the throats of other minorities within the imperial core, etc? The loyalty to the maniacs whose neoliberal policies disproportionately affect LGBT people and other minorities, the the loyalty to the neocons who are goosestepping towards WW3 and nuclear oblivion that will annihilate the majority of our community (and every other community for that matter)?

These clowns harping on about you being a "traitor to the queer community" sure are quickly willing to turn around, and stab other queer folk in the back. From the sounds of it, maybe you didn't lose a friend after all; they're the one who stabbed you in the back, not the other way around, after all.