Showers/tubs should have a access panel on the other side of the wall the faucet is on so you can get at the plumbing. Mine didn't (also 1960's house) so I cut an access hole and got one of those spring loaded wall hole covers that are designed to allow wall access without cutting every time.
this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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Yeah, the main bath has an access panel (whereas the master shower stall does not). I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking for on that side. The spigot should just unscrew from the tub side, correct? And the shower knob is corroded in place.
Mine have tiny screws on the bottom that hold them in place on to of the right fit. Might check to see if yours do too.
There's set screws on the flanges. I didn't think to look for one under the spigot... but no dice. Likewise on the shower knob. Not even sure where one would be hiding. The hot and cold just have an easily accessible screw fixing them to the valves. I do appreciate the suggestion though.
Total tangent... it's midnight here and I need to shower before bed. But part of me wants to turn off the water and start messing with stuff lol.
Edit: goddamn ADHD. Here's the fixtures:
Hot and cold come right off. The shower won't budge. Also, yuck.
Ugh, difficult one. You might have to remove some of the tiles to replace/fix them. Might be possible to carefully open only a small section to get to the pipes and then install a larger shower panel on top, hiding the broken tiles behind it.
I'm not sure why I would need to remove the tiles? Unless it's to have room for leverage to remove the shower knob.
The shower knobs are part of a valve assembly that is likely directly connected to the pipes below the tiles. Unless you are lucky to somehow find spare-parts for this specific 50 year old model, you will have to fully replace it.
It's anyway an odd design as the mixer seems to be below the tiles as well, making it nearly impossible to replace or fix. Like wtf were people thinking back then?
A modern standard design only has two 1/2" threaded connections (for hot and cold water) exposed through the tiles, and everything else is external, so that there is no need to touch the tiles or the pipes below when fixing or replacing the armature.
Edit: going by some other remarks, this is in the US and it isn't actually a house with real concrete or brick walls, but rather those cheap drywall contraptions people think are houses? In that case you might be able to open it up from the backside and access it from there, which would explain why they went for such an extremely bad design.
Well. That just threw cold water on my plans. Pun intended. But I'm still confused. Everything looks identical (aside from ornamentation) to something like this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Danco-3-Handle-Metal-Tub-Shower-Repair-Kit-For-Gerber/1092421
I should just be able to remove the old hardware: loosen the set screw on the flanges/caps, slide them off, unscrew the sleeves, then ratchet off the valve stems. The sticking point (literally) is the shower knob and bath spigot seem to be frozen/corroded in place.
ETA: yes this is in the US. Drywall under the tile, access panel behind... but I really shouldn't need to do that. Everything I've read so far outside of this thread says it should be a simple swap job.
Well, you can certainly try. Maybe this specific design is sufficiently standardized to repair it with such an kit. As a European I am not familiar with that specific design, but these things tend to have subtile differences making repairs across decades hard. But if you can access it from the backside a full replacement as a backup plan seems doable without breaking the tiles.
If hardness is the likely cause of internal incrustations, you can try to loosen it with some vinegar or other acid. But some strategic use of force is nearly always required when undoing old plumbing.
Know where your shut off valves are. Assume they don't shut and locate the ones upstream from those and of course know where your main shut off is. Plumbing isn't hard but often the work you need to do is in a cramped miserable space. It helps to have two wrenches. When cranking hard on a fitting it's a good idea to keep the wrench on the next piece to prevent the torque from putting stress on piping further down the line. I hope this makes sense. You can replace old piping with PEX pipe and fittings. I don't have experience with it but it seems easy. I learned to solder with a propane torch by practicing on a few fittings in a bench vice. Not hard but there are a few things you need to know. Metal drains are easy to replace with PVC. Good Luck
The two wrench thing makes perfect sense, and was something I had in mind. It's just that the other side of the fitting is on the other side of the wall lol. Would need to be a 2-person job. Need to get a better look inside the access panel (and take down a second piece of drywall for reasons only known to the previous owner) to see if the spout pipe is fitted or soldered. If it's soldered, what would be the tool for the job on the other side? I'm thinking vice grips so as not to accidentally over-tighten but I'm well aware that there's a bunch of stuff I don't know.
I appreciate the general tips as well. The ceiling is coming down in the basement soon so I'll be able to get a look at the underside. The master shower leaks like crazy so there will definitely be work to do. Fingers crossed that the prior owners also stopped using it, and there's no subfloor damage etc.
I doubt the spout pipe is soldered in, should be threaded. When cranking on pipes like that generally two pipe wrenches work best but if you can only have your hand on one side vice grips might work. You can try clamping it to a stud somehow lol. If it's soldered though I'd think you'd need to cut it or heat the solder up with a torch to remove it but I'm betting it's threaded. Don't be surprised if it's tough to turn. You might be able to loosen it up with a torch, be careful not to burn any wood. If you do have to cut it a pipe cutter or hacksaw will work if you have room. A reciprocating saw is an option.
I should mention I'm not a plumber though minor plumbing is part of my job plus I've owned two houses over a hundred years old. It's hard to give specific advice remotely. You'll figure it out. Adapt and overcome!
Well I got a look at the back side. There is a fitting, but it's after the elbow. ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ So yeah, not gonna be torquing that at all lol. I borrowed a heat gun from a neighbor, and the spout twisted right off after a minute or so. And then a ton of mineral buildup went everywhere. Thanks slow leak! What a mess.
Unfortunately the shower diverter knob doesn't seem to want to give, at all. Push comes to shove I can leave it in place, but I would really prefer at least giving things a thorough cleaning.
Thank you so much for the tips!
A heat gun to expand the metal and a rubber mallet or block of wood with a hammer to try and tap the handle would be my least destructive suggestion. You could try and use a pry bar, but you'll run the risk of cracking a tile.
I think I'd give my former suggestion a solid shot before trying anything that could cause damage.
I'd just replace the whole thing if I where you. Are there replacement valves even available anymore, if there 60 years old there might not be?
If you do just want to fix the old ones, spray then with a penatrating oil (WD-40) and let it soak in for a few hours and try again. If that direct doesn't work try heating them up with a torch. Don't forget to turn off the water to the house before trying either lol
I am by no means an expert... I just kind of assumed everything was standardized, and new valves would be interchangeable.
Good call on the WD 40. I should be able to get behind the shower knob. For the spigot, it's more of a spray and hope lol.
I just kind of assumed everything was standardized, and new valves would be interchangeable.
hahaha... sobs uncontrollably 😭
Plumbing is famous for being the least standardized craft in the world...
Nope, if it really is that old I doubt you'll find a replace. At best you could try to replace all the o-rings in the old valve and put it back in. If you want to try to find a replacement anyways, take out the old valve and take it to a plumbing supply store and ask someone behind the counter if they have any. Also, avoid buying plumbing supplies from Home Depot/Lowe's or any big box store, it's all garbage.
I worked a few years in plumbing in my youth and in these type of situations we'd always replace the whole setup.
Heat did the trick for the spout, no dice on the diverter knob. Same with WD-40... there's no place to really access the problem spot. It's on there good.
Noted on big box vs dedicated supply store.
I did some more research and I think I'll be able to be able to replace the washers and re-pack the compression nuts, and keep the original valves. But I'm not attempting that until I can get an early start on a day when the supply store is open for any running back and forth that may be needed. And even aside from that, none of the local big box stores have any packing nut material in stock.
Thank you again for the insight!
Heat did the trick for the spout, no dice on the diverter knob.
I forgot to mention, when you use heat to try and loosen it up to drain the water out of the system first. Otherwise all the heat will just get transferred to the water in the pipes. So try turning off the water to the house, then turn on the shower and open a sink or shower in the basement so all the water will drain away from the shower you're working on.
Be aware that this might melt any plastic or rubber in the shower valve causing it to leak or make it unusable until you fix it. It might be smart to have a replacement shower valve on hand just in case you can't fix the old one, best case you can return it if your successful fixing the old one.
They make specific replacement shower valves sets that come with a large trim piece that cover up the hole you would have to make to replace the old valve.
Sorry I wasn't more specific about all that, I haven't worked in plumbing for like ten years 😅
All good, I appreciate it.
I did not turn off the water (calculated gamble), but I did drain the diverter/mixer before starting any work, and didn't apply heat for a while after that. The piece that's frozen is right at the front of the handle (pic is elsewhere in the thread), and the stem head is right behind it. It should have gotten to temp pretty quickly. I didn't go too crazy since I wasn't planning on disassembling anything until I had access to replacement parts, just gave it a few tugs.
Just finished putting on the new spout... and at its tightest, it points straight up ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ So I backed it off a half and am now waiting for the caulk to cure. I packed the tile hole with putty so the caulk is more for looks than anything. If the diverter valve sprays everywhere... guess I'm going knocking until someone says I can use their shower lol.
Edit: all is well. Or at least no worse than it was.