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[–] 146 points 2 years ago (25 children)

Hey now. Rogue One is out there.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    Definitely a top 4 Star Wars movie. Possibly top 2.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    I really loved that one character has a French accent, because he's from the planet France.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Despite some of the stupif shit like explaining why his name is Solo I liked the han solo movie too

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    [–] 59 points 2 years ago (16 children)
  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (9 children)
  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Andor is the kind of show where I would literally recommend it to someone who hates Star Wars. It's just such an incredibly raw, powerful, and vital piece of media. One of the finest works of anti-fascist art I've seen in a long time.

    Anyone who hasn't watched that show is robbing themselves. Moments like "one way out" and Luthen's "sacrifice" monologue are going to live with me for a long time. Season 2 can't come soon enough.

    Also B2EMO is the best droid in all of Star Wars (Fun fact; his voice is the puppeteer's, but it wasn't supposed to be. They were planning to overdub, but then the guy did such an amazing job on the set that they just gave him the role).

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Andor worked despite being Star Wars, not because of it. It very well could be even better for people who don't like SW. Knowing how it fits into the larger universe is nice, but it isn't required. It's just a good anti-fascist freedom fighter story that happens to use Star Wars language and aesthetics.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago*

    I'm not sure I fully agree there. I think it's absolutely accurate to say that Andor didn't need to be Star Wars. Like, you absolutely could file all the serial numbers off and get a show that works in more or less exactly the same way.

    With that said, I think Andor absolutely benefits from being Star Wars, in a couple of a ways.

    The first is that they can skip all the broad strokes world building. We don't need the concept of the galactic empire explained to us, or the general structure of how the senate works, and so on. The big pieces are all in place, so they can get straight to the small scale world building instead. This would be a solvable problem if you were creating something new, but its definitely nice that they get to skip straight to the important bits this way.

    The second, bigger benefit (IMO) is the juxtaposition created by the tonal shift. Something that's very notable about Star Wars is that the tone and the content are often rather at odds with each other. George Lucas is on record as saying that in his mind the Rebellion were the Viet-Cong (with the obvious implication that the Empire is the USA). That's some fucking heavy shit. Luke's adoptive parents get brutally murdered by agents of the state, for absolutely no crime at all, and this inspires him to take up with a group of, well, terrorists. I mean, this is literally the same as a young Palestinian joining up with Hamas. Star Wars is about some really, really heavy shit, but it also starts with the line "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away..." This is a fairy-tale about magic space wizards, but also a story about insurgents blowing up a massive military installation, and eventually performing a coup and assassinating the head of state.

    Over the years, the story around Star Wars has leaned increasingly into the "magic space wizards" side of things. It's seen as a family friendly property, something for kids to enjoy at Disneyland. The creators of Andor set out to intentionally shock the audience by creating something that leans hard away from that family friendly image. Andor is a fucking dark story, about desperate people adopting brutal methods in the face of brutal oppression.

    And they're not just doing that for shock value. The point of this is to tell a story about the ways in which we idealise "rebels" in one breath and condemn "terrorists" in another. To many people, Luke is a hero, but that young man who joins up with Hamas is a monster. Reality is complicated and messy. Hamas are a real political group, with a real ideology, and despite the monstrous oppression they face, some of that ideology really sucks. Their targets aren't "Storm Troopers", they're often civilians, or conscripts. On the other hand, many of those conscripts behave in ways far more monstrous than anything the empire is ever depicted as doing.

    Andor is a story about fascism, about the absolute necessity of resisting it, and about the monstrous personal cost that resistance can demand of us. By setting that story against the backdrop of a "family friendly" property I think it really does a lot to drive home the disconnect between our ideals of resistance and the cold, hard reality.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Andor was so well done that it stressed me out. The cheesy schlock of Bobafet was just what I needed.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Honestly, fair (and I say that as someone who is a huge, huge, HUGE fan of Andor). Like, if you're looking for some cheesy fun science fantasy schlock about space wizards, do not watch that show.

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  • [–] 52 points 2 years ago (48 children)

    I liked a lot of seven, but knowing that you'd have to eventually watch nine sort of invalidates the rest of that trilogy

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  • [–] 76 points 2 years ago (25 children)

    Never did watch 9. My biggest problem with 7 ?and other reboots like Jurassic World) is it was literally almost a rehash of 4, except with an even bigger “Death Star”. Rather than going for a unique plot.

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  • [–] 33 points 2 years ago (19 children)

    I thought they did really well on coming up with new characters, and original stories, I enjoyed most of their arcs and adventures in 7.

    The biggest death Star was the biggest letdown of that movie for sure.

    But hoo boy, after I watched nine, my irritation at the laziness of a bigger death Star is nearly insignificant compared to some of the plot points in 9.

    When I saw the starkiller I rolled my eyes, but I literally could have walked out during 9 from

    spoilerthe knife and sith island

    I was already bummed out at eight that there was no Luke or character development for finn.

    Then all of nine was pretty bad but especially the idiotic plot device mentioned above and a couple other things ruined that trilogy for me and definitely tarnished my enthusiasm for 7

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    Idk if original stories is something you can give it. The bigger death star is far from the only plot point lifted directly out of episode 4. Seriously, go back and watch ep 4 and ep 7 it's almost shot-for-shot (not really but for some of the story beats it could be).

    Maybe what you're saying is that the character back stories are original which, kinda.

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  • [–] 44 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Lies, there's the prequel Rogue One.

    That's it though.

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  • [–] 39 points 2 years ago (33 children)

    No, there's the original trilogy, the prequels, and the "Oh, it was Palpatine the whole time. ...again. How original."

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  • [–] 43 points 2 years ago* (28 children)

    8 really ruined it. 7 had problems but I could forgive some of them because "Disney still trying to figure it out."

    Then 8 happened. Closed off all story threads from 7 without any fanfare at all, and closed off all of its own potential threads within itself, leaving absolutely nothing for 9 to follow up on. Multiple character assassinations, and the entire Canto section could be deleted from the film and zero context would be lost.

    9 was never going to succeed. It couldn't have. There was nothing for it to build on from 8.

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    What story threads? There were no story threads. There was hopeful fans who wanted to create things out of thin air. That's about it. There was more from 8 to lead off from than 7.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    8 gets a lot of hate along with the rest of the sequels, and I remember being pissed off of its scorched earth treatment of every single plot point from 7 after watching it in the movie theatre, but looking back… at least it tried to be original. The scenes are visually memorable, and its message that even nobody can rise up to be a hero, is miles better than… whatever the 9 did with Rey.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    7 put Luke hiding on an island while a war was going on and left 8 to take the flak for explaining why. There was no way to make 8 without pissing people off.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

    A pity they already had the entire EU to work from and decided to obliterate it all... until they fucked up their own shit so badly they started bringing it back.

    We could have had another trilogy centered around an established strong female character.

    Mara Jade.

    Sure, mix and match in some new ideas to make it work better as films than novels. The idea of Finn (a defecting stormtrooper) absolutely works in this setting.

    But the original cast is too old for that time period!

    Well we've now seen that Luke can be portrayed reasonably well with another actor and face and voice changing tech.

    Have a whole trilogy set in basically the Mando/Asoka time period, but use the Mandalorians in a more adult story about the difficulty of establishing and maintaining alliances when the New Republic is young, the Imperial Remnant still exists, and now basically its chaos as various factions are picking sides.

    Thrawn can be the big bad, but his presence is barely hinted at in 7, makes his appearance in 8 and has a major victory, and is defeated in 9.

    You could even work in Boba Fett and Asoka! Maybe Thrawn sends Fett to assassinate Luke in 8 and he is seriously wounded or his new gaggle of Jedi trainees are fucked up, but Asoka helps Luke fend him off on the Millennium Falcon!

    But uh nope, instead we got A New Hope v2, A B and C plot clusterfuck with a side of break hyperspace and all space combat lore, followed by Duct Tape and Bullshit.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    There is no Sequel Trilogy in Ba Sing Se.

    Here we are safe. Here we are free.

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    [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    the local theater (we had one in our town) kept star wars playing (and only star wars) for a year. it wasn't until around grease and jaws2 that they played anything else.

    same thing happened for the other two films of what became the original trilogy.

    basically turned me off to the whole 'franchise'. all the films star wars kept from me as a small town kid by being on eternal repeat in the only theater accessible to me at the time.

    i did see the original first three films--one time each, the first week of their initial runs.

    but none since.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The ratio on this post makes me think there is hope for lemmy afterall.

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    [–] 8 points 2 years ago (13 children)
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    [–] 8 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Star Wars (no, it wasn't "EPISODE IV A NEW HOPE"), Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi were the only good SW movies. The rest are embarrassingly bad fanfiction. Just because people laugh at the prequel memes doesn't make the prequels good. We as a society fell when we started laughing at all the horrible parts of the prequels and then asked ourselves "wait, if we're being entertained by the prequels, does that mean they were good?" and coming to the absolute wrong conclusion.

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    [–] 8 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    You know what would really suck though?

    If they made any Matrix or Highlander sequels.

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    [–] 7 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    I had a professor who didn't even accept the whole trilogy, and (probably at least in part ironically) attributed some amount of societal problems to the third movie.

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