this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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Foreign secretary’s call comes after group releases video of British-Israeli hostage it says died after being wounded in Israeli airstrike

David Cameron has urged the BBC to describe Hamas as a terrorist organisation, reviving an accusation that the corporation shies away from a valid description of the Islamist group that is holding Israeli hostages.

The UK foreign secretary told the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg that the organisation should reconsider its guidelines in light of a video released by Hamas showing the British-Israeli hostage Nadav Popplewell, who the group said had died in Gaza.

Hamas released a statement on Saturday saying the 51-year-old had died after being wounded in an Israeli airstrike a month ago. The video showed him with a black eye.

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[–] [email protected] 128 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Making an exception for one organisation, pressured by politicians, would be harmful. BBC has the following policy about neutral reporting:

We don't use loaded words like "evil" or "cowardly". We don't talk about "terrorists". And we're not the only ones to follow this line. Some of the world's most respected news organisations have exactly the same policy

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

this is very relevant. thanks.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 5 months ago (45 children)

Hamas is a terrorist organization

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Wikipedia first lines summarizes the 7th of October quite well:

Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.

Hamas still haven't released the civilian hostages. Hamas hides among civilians. The list goes on and on.

The only sad part is that the Palestinian people once voted for a terrorist organisation to represent them.

People can call Hamas for "Freedom Fighters" all they want but it doesn't erase the fact:

Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

And there's the problem. Why should Hamas be called a terrorist and not the Israel government?

This is why news organisations avoid the word. It clearly picks a side.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 months ago (15 children)

Sounds like the BBC's explanation on their use of language regarding Hamas is relevant here:

John Simpson responded to the criticism in a post on X. "British politicians know perfectly well why the BBC avoids the word 'terrorist', and over the years plenty of them have privately agreed with it," he wrote.

"Calling someone a terrorist means you're taking sides and ceasing to treat the situation with due impartiality.

"The BBC's job is to place the facts before its audience and let them decide what they think, honestly and without ranting."

He said: "It's about making sure that all audiences trust the information that we're giving them, that they don't think the BBC is coming at this from one side of the conflict as opposed to the other, and that we steer a course though this in very difficult circumstances in which our journalism can continue to be factual, accurate, impartial and truthful."

The corporation's editorial guidelines say the word "terrorist" can be "a barrier rather than an aid to understanding".

They say: "We should convey to our audience the full consequences of the act by describing what happened.

"We should use words which specifically describe the perpetrator such as 'bomber', 'attacker', 'gunman', 'kidnapper', 'insurgent' and 'militant'.

"We should not adopt other people's language as our own; our responsibility is to remain objective and report in ways that enable our audiences to make their own assessments about who is doing what to whom."

Hamas is a terrorist organization because they use violence against civilians with the goal of imposing their political will, this is, they commit acts of terrorism. Now, if you use this standard, the Israeli government also uses violence against civilians with the goal of imposing their political will, this is, they commit acts of terrorism, therefore the Israeli government is also a terrorist organization. Would David Cameron be okay with the BBC maintaining their neutrality and describing both sides as terrorists?

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Can we label him as a pig-fucking PM? Oh wait, we already do.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Isn't that a Black Mirror episode?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

The very first, if I recall.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Continuing the tradition of British conservative prime ministers labelling things "terrorism" when the poor get uppity.

How's Thatcher looking these days for insisting that Mandela was a terrorist?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (4 children)

If Hamas isn't a terrorist organization then what would you call them?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I'll put this back to you this way: is Likud also a terrorist organization? Is the IDF? Because they do a lot of the same stuff.

There are definitely terrorists associated with Hamas, and Hamas definitely carries water for them, but they're also the duly elected government in Gaza and if I were Israel I'd be asking why Gazans feel like they were so wronged that the only option seems to be a political movement that's sympathetic to terrorist tactics.

Saying "they're terrorists" without acknowledging how we got here is a lot like calling the ANC in South Africa "terrorist" in the 1980s. It's stupidly reductionist and ignores complexity for the sake of jingoism.

It's also why Cameron is a disingenuous jackass.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago

I agree with everything you've said. Hamas can be a terrorist organization, and still be the elected government. Both can be true, and acknowledging the how and why of that being the case is necessary reach a resolution to the conflict.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (5 children)

What's your definition of terror tactics?

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago

if you describe hamas as a terrorist organisation (they are) then you also have to point out israel's role in creating and funding them.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

One man's terrorist group is another man's freedom fighter. This is why many new organizations that are big on neutrality normally shy away from calling anyone terrorist groups. You could just as easily frame Israel as a terrorist group with the same justifications listed above.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Hamas are every bit as much a terrorist organisation as Isis, the IRA, FARC, Red Army faction, Al Qaeda or UDF have been.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (10 children)

None of which are called terrorists by the BBC.

The BBC has a long standing policy against calling people/organizations terrorists.

Their position in this case says nothing about how they view Hamas. The position of those complaining about it says a lot about how they view the role news organizations.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Hamas is comparable to the IRA but not the rest.

The big difference is that organisations like ISIS try to take over other countries whereas Hamas is resisting colonists of their own country.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Sorry Dave, I trust John Simpson. You're just a pink-faced ham botherer.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67083432

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Hamas is a terrorist organization. So is the IDF. Protect the people, not the barbarian leaders they admittedly did choose. I choose to defend the people because no sane minded person would elect a leader that uses their own citizens as bait and hostages and i believe most people can be at least called sane minded.

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