83
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by BeamBrain@hexbear.net to c/worldbuilding@hexbear.net

Once you learn how to understand and apply historical materialism and break out of capitalist canards like the myth of barter, it becomes much easier to come up with the things that make societies feel evolving, nuanced, and alive: internal struggles, subcultures and countercultures, political movements, economic bases, social mores and customs. That, plus having a variety of real-world examples to draw from to avoid falling into the trap of capitalist realism.

all 23 comments
sorted by: hot top new old
[-] Egon@hexbear.net 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Lmao on the other hand it has made my lib DMs worldbuilding seem pretty barren. He had a sport of company town with no formal government, but the police still existed. We asked who employed the police, and he said the government. We asked him what government, and he said "the important people pay them." So far so good if you wanna make a crypto fascist Dystopia, but he didnt. He wanted it to be kind of a fantasy company town with a repressed working class, but he also wanted to have cool wacky frontier type of government that were the good guys, so they couldn't be repressive. So he imported social and material conditions of the time period around Battle of Blair mountain, but sort of took everything in our modern society for granted. Police, the law, who makes it, why we follow it, why the cops uphold it, that kind of stuff.

We asked him "why does everyone else go along with the police being around?" And he said "its the law" and we asked "what law?" And he said "you know, the law" and we said "no we don't know, what law? Like the police say they are the police, but on what authority? What is the social contract that makes them be accepted by society if it is not just brutal repression?" And he went "well it's not repression unless you break the law."
And we said "BUT WHO MAKES THE LAW AND WHY WOULD WE GO ALONG WITH IT IF WE HAVENT ELECTED THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE LAW OR GOTTEN THE SHIT BEATEN OUT OF US FOR NOT SUBJUGATING OURSELVES?WHY DO PEOPLE ACCEPT THAT THEIR FRIENDS GET KIDNAPPED AND PUT INTO LOCKED ROOMS FOR BREAKING AN AGREEMENT THEY HAVE NEVER ACCEPTED?" and he said "oh they're elected!" And we said "SO THERE IS A GOVERNMENT?" and he said "no. The people in charge make the law" and we went "but that's what a government is!" And he went "but nobody pays taxes" and we asked "but then how are the cops being paid?" And he said "the important people pay them" and we said "why do they do this?" And he said "its the law, and also they control the police" and we said "so they're the government" and he said "no not at all, they don't make the laws and also they don't actually control the police" and we were just like mao-wtf

It was like he was pretty much the entire way at describing a fascist police state, but he kept insisting it wasn't, it was just like now... It was making us crazy because he couldn't see it himself. Like it wasn't a joke or some sort of commentary, it was just the most "well it's a town so it has police. They uphold the law, which people obey, and if they don't they go to jail, which is how the law works" grillman

He kept trying to insist that the cops ruled by consent, but they had their wages paid for by the corporations, the laws were made by the corporations, people lived in absolute squalor, but kept moving to the town, despite there being nothing (materially or socially) barring them from moving to other towns less than 5 days travel away, or fighting back (despite having established that the working class people were more numerous, had access to FIREARMS in a fantasy setting) They had every reason and means to do an uprising, yet somehow didn't. It was all just aesthetics. He's good at aesthetics though, but yeesh guy if you're gonna do political stuff read a book or two please.

tl;dr my DM assumed the existence of police was a natural occuring phenomen. My DM also assumed "the law" to be some sort of natural occuring phenomenon.

[-] casskaydee@hexbear.net 20 points 2 years ago

I used to listen to the Ricky Gervais Show and Karl Pilkington (same guy from An Idiot Abroad) would sometimes share his ideas for inventions but he never thought out how they would actually work, which of course made Ricky and Steve crack up.

In one episode he presented an idea for "a watch that counted down your life", i.e. if you were going to die in 3 days it would read "3 days" on the watch. When pressed to explain how it would actually work, he kept answering "just pop it on your wrist"

Anyway I think about that segment a lot when I talk to liberals about their conception of the political economy.

[-] keepcarrot@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

If he said how it worked, people could critique it.

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] Dr_Vegapunk@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 years ago

Haha nice, these days when my lib friends ask me what am I doing outside work, I tell them I’m studying worldbuilding irl. They’re like thats awesome, give me some recommendations and I send them texts on Mao’s people’s communes lmao!

[-] Dessa@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Can you send me those texts?

[-] Dr_Vegapunk@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)
[-] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Samesies. I'm not so great on reading the big books of theory but I've passively absorbed and put together enough bits of theory that the world just makes sense to me in a way it didn't before, and I'm thinking about the sources of conflict and factions that might arise from them. Eastern jungle continent being soft-colonized by the recovering war-ravaged west? Northern settled lizardfolk kingdoms are all too glad to let the western corporations and privateers slaughter the southern nomadic tribes clearing land for rapid cash-crop farming with time acceleration. They get to expand and secure more territory and make more money selling spices and their superior alchemical compounds to the traders who enjoy the protection of the Peacekeepers (probably need to change that name) who patrol the edges of the protectorate against piracy but simply don't have the resources to go out protecting those poor tribals against the outlaws who leave the protectorate against the rules of the charter! Also yes they're stocking up on alchemical weapons that technically do not violate the ban on non-lightning weapons since they're not elvencraft in origin, and choking gas is just too damn useful of a tool to leave by the wayside. There was a riot in that dwarven factory town last week, nipped that shit in the bud. There's no nobles anymore, no need for revolutions. Also have you tried this coffee stuff? Or chocolate? Don't know why the tribals are just sitting on that shit and spend all day hunting. Don't they know they could make tons of money fast-farming it themselves? Their fault for dying tbh

[-] RedWizard@hexbear.net 16 points 2 years ago

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, too. In reflecting on some of the D&D campaigns I've run, I realize how much of capitalist life is reflected within them. I'd be interested in hearing how you apply Historical Materialist thinking to world building.

One thing I've always wanted to avoid is making other ancestral societies simply be "Human Elves". Meaning, Elves have all the same economic and political norms that a Human society has. It simply doesn't make sense to me that a society of people, objectively created by gods, who live for over 750 years (or forever in some settings), would have a gold-based market economy and notions about private property. The same basically goes for Dwarves as well.

If labor is the base of all societies, and the people in some of these societies can live for hundreds of years, what kind of impact does that have on the superstructure of their societies?

[-] ksynwa_from_lemmygrad@hexbear.net 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

To this day my favourite instances of world building are Disco Elysium and Elden Ring.

Not much to say about Disco Elysium. It's writers are Marxist.

While Elden Ring creator is most likely not a Marxist, his work (Dark Souls series, etc.) grapple with concept of epochs rising, waning and coming to an end. A common theme is that there is an ever pervading atmosphere of stagnation (in the japanese sense), decay, rot, and major actors of the world are either trying to keep the flimsy scaffolding standing while others are trying to being the current age to an end so that a new one may begin. It stands in contrast to how liberal media and people seem to not know that history has gone on for longer than since yesterday.

[-] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

Reading Communist theory made me my academic advisor’s darling star student. It was so fucking funny.

[-] Antiwork@hexbear.net 11 points 2 years ago

What are some of your favorite books?

Seconding this request. I have enough knowledge of theory to argue with liberals, but not nearly enough to do what I actually want to do, which is portray societies and cultures while worldbuilding in an interesting way. I love writing, but all my plots usually just become yet another fantasy (or sci-fi) communist revolution story lol

[-] muddi@hexbear.net 6 points 2 years ago

Same here, but I also got disillusioned with the online communities and fantasy/scifi literature. I feel like there's a lot of focus on "hard" worldbuilding which is to say magic systems, tectonic plates, and deterministic (and somewhat racist) theories.

But not enough of the social aspect like language and culture which linguistics/conlanging and anthropology covers. Dialectical materialism then ties them together, the physical and the social. It's the final stage of worldbuilding quality you could say

But a lot of worldbuilders hate on the above because it's too much work apparently. Though I find that weird when they are still willing to draw detailed maps and calculate tectonic plates movement idk.

I remember watching Brandon Sanderson's lectures on writing when he said to ignore language. I vividly remember my disillusionment starting then.

Someone who ignores details of the real world to create a fictional world but still calls it as detailed as the real world is very suspicious to me.

this post was submitted on 23 Apr 2024
83 points (100.0% liked)

Worldbuilding

1518 readers
1 users here now

A place to share your original creations or those found from around the world.

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS