this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2024
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Privacy

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I live in Canada. My girlfriend is Chinese (also living in Canada), and while we are able to communicate via SMS, her mobile carrier isn't the best, and so there have often been issues for us with regular texting. She expressed a strong preference to use WeChat, at least as a backup option for when texting fails us. While I have some pretty significant reservations, it's not the hill I want to die on. So my question is: what can be done to use WeChat without compromising my whole phone? I'm okay with it if our conversations aren't private, but I'd like to know that I'm not giving unfettered access to all of my phone's systems and data to the CCP. What can be done to limit the reach of this ubiquitous app on my device?

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (18 children)

I'm in China and have to use that piece of crap. So here's how I locked it down:

  1. Root your phone with Magisk. There's no way around it.
  2. Install Storage Isolation (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=moe.shizuku.redirectstorage) and deny access to all folders.
  3. Install ApOps (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=rikka.appops) and set pretty much everything to deny or ignore (ignore means the app receives the information "permission granted", but no data is provided, in case some permissions are "mandatory"). If you intend to use wechat to exchange voice messages or make video calls/send photos, the "use microphone" and "use camera" functions would be required. In a similar fashion the location access if you intend to use the location sharing feature.
  4. Be acutely aware that wechat is not encrypting messages, neither end to end nor in the server communicaton. Everything you say can (and probably will) be read and archived. Don't say anything confidential or critical there.

And yeah really, try to convince your ~~wife~~ girlfriend to use signal instead. Or hell, even whatsapp is miles ahead.

My wife is Chinese as well, so even after we leave here she'll be using wechat to stay in touch with family, no way around it, but using messengers more commonplace in other countries is definitely better. Personally I will move wechat to another phone once we're out. For now that's not feasible as it's too much integrated into every function of life here.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Second phone just for WeChat.

Failing that use a android work profile and run WeChat inside of that. It should isolate WeChat from the rest of the days on your phone. WeChat would still have access to your location, microphone comment etc but not your data

[–] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

This is the way. Depending on how much convenience you are willing to sacrifice.

There are one or two apps on F-Droid for using the work partition, and you can force-freeze apps within that, so you can turn wechat actually off when you don't want it. That also separates wechat from your phone contacts list, without denying it nominal contacts access permission (without which, iirc, it refuses to work).

For extra paranoia, run your dedicated wechat phone permanently through a VPN with location services on the phone turned off. Answer it only in a soundproofed room, Faraday caged with no WiFi connections except the dedicated wechat WiFi. Speak with a funny voice, and if you must show your face, wear a balaclava.

But that might be overdoing it a little.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What about something like Waydroid to avoid spending extra money? Wonder if these are detected on registration.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Was considering Waydroid, but ideally I want something that I can take with me on the go. Some folks have suggested the app Shelter on fdroid though and that seems like an ideal solution for the time being.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Ah, okay. But given the invasiveness of the app - I now really wonder if it is possible for it to detect and shut down registration from desktops this way.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 months ago (1 children)

To answer the question: GrapheneOS and a separate profile would be the safest but still...

If you are both outside of china there really is zero reason (other than preference) to use that piece of spyware.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (5 children)

To answer the question: GrapheneOS and a separate profile would be the safest

I appreciate the suggestion, but maybe I should add that I'd like to not have to change up my phone too much. It's a Fairphone 4 running the OEM Android and my preference would be to keep it that way. Are separate profiles like that a thing on stock Android?

If you are both outside of china there really is zero reason (other than preference) to use that piece of spyware.

She travels back to China sometimes, uses it to contact friends and family back home, and uses it to chat with lots of mainlanders here in Canada. For her it's not weird at all.

In fact, she expressed to me that she's perfectly comfortable with the fact that they use WeChat combined facial recognition technology in China for payment processing. When you get on public transit, you can have them scan your face and it will automatically charge you the bus fare. It really skeeves me out, but it's simply not the hill I want to die on in this relationship. I'm crazy about her in so many ways, it's okay with me if we don't see eye-to-eye on digital privacy.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago

Yes you can use work profiles on stock Android. Look at the shelter app in fdroid to get started

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you're in the US and mostly worried about one app, you can probably devote a Work folder via an app like Shelter to a GF.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I'm not in the US, but what is this Shelter you speak of?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

https://f-droid.org/packages/net.typeblog.shelter/

Shelter is an app that takes advantage of the work profile in android to install apps in that profile and makes shortcuts for the app in the normal profile. So it feels like you're just using an app as usual but the app is pretty much sandboxed away from all your info.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Thank you! This is exactly the sort of thing I was looking for!

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

https://f-droid.org/packages/net.typeblog.shelter/

https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter

Shelter is an open source program that can use the mobile device management APIs of Android to create a work profile. It's used by many people to have app isolation. It works on stock Android as well as most custom ROMs

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

Android 15 solves your issues -

https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-private-space-hands-on-3432113/

Private Spaces when they come to Fairphone will be perfect for this.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (12 children)

Ignore the dumbass "why dOn'T yOu jUsT uSe sOmEtHinG bEtTeR" replies. Anyone who has a partner knows that the onus is generally on the privacy-conscious one in the relationship to make these types of concessions, since the other person is usually incapable/unwilling to use something better.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 6 months ago (1 children)

And, let's be fair, for most people the real loss from this level of compromised privacy/security is far less than the real gain from helping your relationship.

Sometimes I look at products I use from dubious companies, take a step back, and think, this company is actually a blessing in my life even if there is a smaller curse attached. That said, I'm grateful for all the tremendous effort put in by many people to make the digital (and rest of) world a safer, more private, fairer and more honest place. And I try to do at least a little of my share!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Damn that's wholesome.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

You could sandbox it into a work profile that doesn't have access to your main profile. Storage is completely segregated, and the work profile can be easily disabled when you're not using it.

The best solution is obviously to choose another platform and convince your girlfriend to use that, explaining how this little extra effort on her part to use another app goes a long way with you in terms of appreciation and understanding of a partner's boundaries and comfort zone.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Shelter is an android app that helps making sandboxed apps

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Yeah this is what I use to create and manage a work profile on my device to keep my personal and work data/apps separate.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 6 months ago (2 children)

FWIW, WeChat and 微信 are different apps. With a non-Chinese phone number and Google Play Store download, you'll be using the international one (WeChat) instead of the Chinese one (微信). There are still privacy concerns, but it'll be less invasive than what you'd have with the version that people in China are buying their groceries with and stuff.

I'm sorry I don't have advice for how to actually protect yourself, though... I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to see what I can learn.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

That's a great point, thanks! I will definitely be using the international one. I expect since I'm getting it through Google Play it'll be constrained based on the OS permissions I give it. And I don't intend to give it any permissions

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ah, that's interesting and makes sense. So I guess your best option (if you must use WeChat) is to use the international version of the app with as many permissions disabled as possible.

Or maybe look at the Matrix WeChat bridge? https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/wechat/

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I've heard of matrix bridges before but I'm unfamiliar with how to actually set them up and use them. I understand the basic idea is that they relay messages out of matrix and into some other messaging service, but I don't understand how to actually enact that onto the element client on my phone. Matrix is so complicated 😅

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

I'll level with you... I've never used Matrix either. 🤣 But all the cool kids around these parts recommend it, and I fundamentally agree with the cause of the project and saw they had the WeChat bridge, so thought I'd mention it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

I stopped using every messenger besides signal and Matrix. Even my not tech savy parents are using signal now - its in my opinion the better solution to stand your ground and may push others into using the better apps

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If you really want to isolate it, grapheneOS lets you put it in its own profile almost totally isolated from anything in any other profile.

But you probably don't want to buy a g! Pixel.

You could buy a separate phone and only run that app on it. Hassle but it would be secure.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

This is good advice. But you can have work profiles on any Android phone. Not just grapheos. Look at shelter in fdroid to get started

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Maybe get a girlfriend that isn't a brain washed spy? \s

Just use a different app then? You don't need to come up with some high tech solution. She won't use that anyway. But something simple like signal should be sufficient.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe get a girlfriend that isn't a brain washed spy? \s

Listen here, I like my qt tankie sleeper cell gf. As long as she doesn't hear anyone say the activation phrase, she's very sweet.

For real though, this app is pretty culturally ingrained over there and so I don't really have the option of pushing something else (we all know how real messaging app fatigue has gotten these days). Especially when other apps will be restricted whenever she travels home, and we want something that can serve as a backup when other communication methods aren't an option. I'm pretty sure WeChat will work through The Great Firewall, so it's ideal for our purposes. I have no idea if the same can be said for WhatsApp or Signal.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Brace yourself for a weird recommendation:

Don’t worry about it or switch to ios.

You’re on a different marketplace for phone apps than chinese nationals so you’re not getting the same wechat as they are. If you trust your platforms marketplace and your phones security and privacy tools then just don’t worry about it and use them like a normal person.

If you don’t trust your platforms marketplace or security and privacy tools, switch platforms.

It doesn’t seem from your responses in this thread that you’re in a good spot right now to learn everything required to root and run an alternative os securely and act as your own security auditor. Not a value judgement, I’m not in a position to act as my own diesel mechanic. That’s why I said maybe switch to ios if you feel exposed by stock android instead of saying you ought to try to navigate the alternate os/custom rom world.

It might seem like some people in the replies have given good walkthroughs, and they definitely have, but at some point you’re gonna have to make a decision about something that either isn’t documented on a wiki or no one responds to questions about.

Maybe the best choice is to either not worry about it or switch platforms and no matter what you choose, put the phones security and privacy tools to use and be more considered and self aware about how you use your phone.

E: Jesus Christ. Some of the responses you’ve gotten are astonishing. Maybe ask in hexbear or something just to get an alternative view.

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