Comradeship // Freechat

The power of propaganda under liberalism is how it absorbs critics rather than rejecting them

People start saying that the media is lying and unreliable? They created the notion of media bubble? Ok that could be bad except if you spread it hard enough through the same media that lies and distorts everything.

Then most people hear about media criticism and get a completely wrong approach that serves the media. They are taught that being critical is asking if the article from a reputable source, and then define reputable source by "the biggest media conglomerate that isn't explicitly conservative". Boom. Now people are even more trustful of mass media because even the "criticizing" part is in fact about trusting them

I've experienced similar. There is this very distinctive character of the liberal who views themself as a discerning, well-informed individual, but takes imperialist news for granted as true while only applying the discerning and skeptical part to things that fall outside of that framework. I can still remember to an extent, in my own learning, the stark difference that it made understanding imperialism vs. not.

And I mean imperialism as we talk about it in these spaces and as defined through observation by communists, rather than the empty colloquial meaning people throw about that means something like "a nation that has a lot of territory and/or power/influence and wants more." Under that meaningless other definition, you get people saying China is imperialist because it's influential and powerful or something. And it's like, no, we are talking about a very specific development of systems, interests, and power here.

I find this to be the case with multiple terms. "Authoritarian" is another one. I try to get people to read On Authority sometimes, in those moments. As is "dictatorship". In communist theory and practice, we distinguish between a dictatorship of capital and a dictatorship of the proletariat. To many liberals, dictator simply means "person who makes everyone do what they say" and "democracy" is contrasted against that. Or how about capitalism vs. business and the people who think that capitalism just means having any kind of commerce.

We could probably compile a whole list of terms like this that are oversimplifications or outright distortions, and contribute to the binary thinking liberals tend to be spinning on.

Edit: slight change on wording

They know they can't trust the media, yet they trust everything the media publishes that's convenient to confirm their works views.

People are not logical. We don't pull all of them to our side at once. The work is hard. But I'm happy we're here for each other. Everyone is welcome. :)

Point out that the reason we know so little about NK isn't because of NK but because of the wests censorship and travel bans etc. it's like when an abusive parent locks their kid up whenever there is a family event, and the rest of the family just believes the parents when they tell them it's just because the kid is reclusive and doesn't like people or some shit.

I feel you. I have one friend who is exactly like this, says stuff like "I think you need to check your sources". The trick with these people is to literally use western sources to prove your point. Shit is getting so bad in the west wrt Ukraine, Palestine, that their own media is often telling on these people, you don't even need to use stuff from CGTN or whatever.

I woke up this morning to a bunch of very positive and helpful messages. Thank you everyone for your kind words.

If you love your family and they are good to you then I suggest not broaching this stuff with them very hard. Reality of the world vs the reality of being a social animal. Your relationships are still the most important thing even though we live in capitalism.

Work slowly on moving them over time. Make sure you're not actually damaging your relationship to win an argument. You said you've only been doing this less than a year and that's a crazy short amount of time to be engaging so actively with this stuff with your family.

I recommend starting with distrust and more neutrality (ex just say Russia is another country on the other side of the world defending itself, why are you scared? Or why is the US surrounding China if the US is defending itself?)

As for sources to back up this line of questioning, many people are distrustful of "breadtube" sources like secondthought because it's a young white guy on YouTube so if they need a white guy with a PhD talking to them, I always recommend Jeffrey Sachs for things about China and Russia, Ukraine war etc. Guy was an advisor for Russian shock therapy in the 90s, PhD etc, so there is no possible way any liberal can dismiss his opinions if they're engaging in good faith.

And don't press all the time. You don't want to make communists appear annoying. If you look at it from your family's point of view, You've changed so radically and are always arguing for something so bizarre, of course they'd liken you to joining a cult!

You want to appear like what most people in the world want to do: just someone who wants enough money to put food on the table and relax at the end of the day. Couple that with being well informed and it's a winning combination.

I feel your pain. Reading and understanding ML theory while growing up in the Imperial Core is a uniquely painful experience. Thank God for spaces like Lenmygrad, where we can actually communicate and realize we're not going insane.

I don't propagate propaganda too hard, but I try to plant a seed in their minds that they are being deceived

I started listening to Chapo and hanging out on r/CTH back in 2018. It took literal years of chipping away at Western media narratives to push my family left.

Honestly one of the bigger things was introducing Means Morning News (it's a 4-day-a-week news program offerered by the leftist co-op subscription service Means.tv, which costs $10/mo, but the Friday show is posted free most weeks) and getting them to watch it regularly, but it took a lot of pointing out the BS in Western media to get to that point. As I'm sure you know, the slant of Western media is very obvious once you're aware of it, but your family, like most people, has been very effectively trained not to see it, and it will take time to break through that.