this post was submitted on 05 Apr 2024
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United States | News & Politics

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Members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol have warned America for three years to take former President Donald Trump at his word.

Now, as Trump is poised to win the Republican presidential nomination, his criminal trials face delays that could stall them past Election Day, and his rhetoric grows increasingly authoritarian, some of those lawmakers find themselves following their own advice.

In mid-March, Trump said on social media that the committee members should be jailed. In December he vowed to be a dictator on “day one.” In August, he said he would “have no choice” but to lock up his political opponents.

“If he intends to eliminate our constitutional system and start arresting his political enemies, I guess I would be on that list,” said Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose). “One thing I did learn on the committee is to pay attention and listen to what Trump says, because he means it.”

Lofgren added that she doesn’t yet have a plan in place to thwart potential retribution by Trump. But Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank), who has long been a burr in Trump’s side, said he’s having “real-time conversations” with his staff about how to make sure he stays safe if Trump follows through on his threats.

“We’re taking this seriously, because we have to,” Schiff said. “We’ve seen this movie before … and how perilous it is to ignore what someone is saying when they say they want to be a dictator.”

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (7 children)

America has executed tens or hundreds of thousands of black and brown people all over the world, without trial, for much lesser acts of alleged terrorism than publicly threatening to kidnap US legislators.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yep, I think it's time to play by republican rules. If they want to play dirty, let's play dirtier. Time to re-open Gitmo. We kept accused spies, traitors, and terrorists locked up for decades without trial. Trump has sold US secrets to the Russians, incited a violent attack on the U.S. capital, and openly stated he would let Russia take Ukraine, a U.S. ally.

That's 3 for 3. Cuff him, put a bag on his head, and leave him rotting in a cell in the humid heat and isolation until he starves to death.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Either Trump is an existential threat that requires the strongest possible response, or he's just another corrupt asshole in a country dominated by others like him.

And before you go "but America doesn't do that sort of thing!", I'd encourage you to look up Fred Hampton.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

I'm familiar with COINTELPRO and more recent black sites used by CPD.

My point is that we shouldn't sink to their level. We can neutralize the threat of a wanna-be dictator man child without murder. The man is sick and he deserves to be treated for his illness.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sure, imprison, convert or kill. Those are the three ways to neutralize someone and they should at least try one.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

The sentence in prison should be as long as is needed to rehabilitate them.

Prison isn't a place to "convert" or "torture" or "punish" someone. Its s place for them to get care and education until they are safe to return to society without being a risk to themselves or others.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There is no point in claiming that the purpose of a system is to do what it constantly fails to do.

The purpose of a system is what it does.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There are countries where prisons are used to torture and there are countries where prisons are used as rehabilitation centers. Both exist.

My point is that we should build the later, not the former.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (1 children)

There is no prison on Earth that does not punish people. Even the most humane institutions struggle to treat inmates as anything other than subhuman, because no matter how lofty the goals of a prison system it's still a prison. And the purpose of prisons is very clear.

My point is we should abolish prison.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, thats not true. There are definitely prisons that dont punish people. I mean they may lock you in a cage, but thats to protect you and help you, not to punish you.

Even the US prison systems (one of the worst I'm the world) is run by the Department of Corrections. At this point they may as well rename it to the Department of Torture (and also Department of Defense should be renex back to the War Department) as the name is double-speak).

We should strive to replicate prisons in nordic countries, not those of the US.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Here's what prisoners have to say:

Here, it is worth looking at the results without any comparative benchmark. Notably, around or above half of prisoners in Norway agreed with items including ‘I feel cut off from the outside world in here’ (56%) and ‘All the Prison Service cares about in this prison is my “risk factors” rather than the person I really am’ (50%); between a third and over two-fifths agreed that ‘This system treats me more like a number than a person’ (41%), ‘The level of security and control in this prison is oppressive’ (39%),‘Staff in this prison think that prisoners are morally beneath them’ (38%), and ‘I have no control over my day-to-day life in here’ (35%). Around one in five agreed with the items ‘The prison system is trying to turn me into someone I am not’ (23%) and ‘This prison is trying to mess with my head’ (22%) and or disagreed that ‘Staff in this prison do their best to help me’ (23%), ‘Staff here treat prisoners fairly’ (20%), and ‘I feel safe from being injured, bullied or threatened by other prisoners in here’ (19%); and substantial proportions disagreed with the item ‘I feel cared about most of the time in this prison’ (16%), or agreed that ‘I am not being treated as a human being in here’ (15%) and ‘Generally I fear for my physical safety’ (13%).

Most notably, as shown in Table 2, just under a quarter of prisoners in Norway agreed with the statements ‘My experience in this prison is painful’, ‘This prison is trying to take away my self-respect’ and ‘My treatment in this prison is humiliating’; just under a third agreed that ‘This prison is doing harm to me’; and well over half agreed that ‘My time in this prison feels very much like a punishment’. Overall, then, while the results are indisputably more positive in Norway than in England & Wales—supporting the claim that Norwegian penality is more humane in relative terms—there is no doubt that, in Norway, pain and suffering are still integral to the prisoner experience. In the following sections, we move on from these general results to discuss more specific findings that are particularly germane to debates about Nordic exceptionalism.

All prisons are prisons. You have a rosey imagined image of the Nordic model, probably because you're from a nightmare country that openly and gleefully tortures prisoners (don't worry, I am too), but the reality is that all prisons are punishment. The purpose of a system is what it does. We should strive for a world without prisons.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes. And that's not punishment.

If someone is mentally not healthy and a risk to themselves or others, you're going to have to do uncomfortable things to them. But the point is that they are given access to resources to be rehabilitated while they're in prison.

I dont know about Norway or Denmark or Iceland. Normally I refer to Finland.

I wasn't in a Finish prison, but I have a friend who was. He spent most of his time in school. As in, he left the prison during the day to attend Uni. A few times a year a guard would come to his class and make sure he was there. Of course it was a limit to his freedom, but he was given resources.

Finland isn't perfect either, and he never should have gone to prison to start with. But their prisons are how prisons should be. They exist to help people, not to make them suffer.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Surely, if your friend could leave the prison to attend school, then the prison itself wasn't necessary! What purpose did that serve other than to alienate and isolate and punish? It's "not perfect" because it can't be, the suffering is the point and all the Nordic model does is make their suffering productive.

Prisons should not be. We don't need Nordic prisons, we need prison abolition.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

He got a free bed, free food, and the prison had facilities for therapy.

This prison is a good thing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

We should strive to replicate prisons in nordic countries

This is totally a bit michael-laugh

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

socdems aren't just doing a bit

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago

Unfortunately true stalin-joking

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I very much do not give a shit whether Trump is rehabilitated or not, he's an existential danger to many groups of people, if somebody decides to put a bullet in his head I'm not gonna cry over it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Trump doesn't deserve forgiveness or a chance to get better. He deserves a hole in the ground with his neck broken.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

The US is the most violent and one of the most classist societies in the world. Slavery is still legal in US prisons.

Its hardly a benchmark.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

Those three methods are taken from the FBI suppressing Black revolutionary thought. I'm this model, prisons are absolutely places to torture, punish and convert people.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't treason carry the death penalty? If they seriously think he's going to become a dictator and end democracy, he should be killed. The US government has had 0 problem doing it to leaders of other countries who did far less; why should Trump get special treatment? Just because he's a rich white guy? Hell, they've even set precedent under Obama that it's legal to drone strike US citizens on foreign soil for being terrorists. Get him next time he leaves the country.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Can we instead join the ranks of most countries and not do capital punishment?

Just disqualify him from becoming a public servant, and lock the man in a nice prison with access to educational programs and other social services. He needs a good history teacher and therapist.

Also, yes, stop all funding to the military and send the generals and their henchmen to the ICC to see if they should receive the same treatment.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

He needs a good history teacher and therapist.

Absolute lib shit lmao. The man is 77 years old and has never faced consequences for his actions in his entire life. That's who he is. He's not going to suddenly reverse his entire personality because you made him talk with a therapist for a couple hours.

Like I understand the desire for rehabilitation, but some people are just fucked.

At any rate he deserves it for his war crimes alone.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Not lib shit, just an actual ficking idiot. I'm a raging fucking lib and I'd drag Tump into the street and shoot him myself if I could. We literally had a world War over this shit and people still want kid gloves.

Owl here is clearly just a fucking sympathizer trying to muddy the water.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago (11 children)

Look, it'd be great to abolish the death penalty, the army, and the current version of the government in favor of something more equitable and humane. But that's not the world we live in. Last year cops killed over 1000 people. In the america of today, under the laws that exist today, why should Trump not be killed?

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