this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
1426 points (95.0% liked)

Science Memes

10950 readers
2055 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 45 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's not obvious? Because white males as a demographic are the most privileged people on the planet and not coincidentally also the ones most prone to petty, oblivious arrogance, tantrum-throwing, and egotistical man-splaining. The latter was demonstrated by the one in this NASA scientist's anecdote.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

This robs people of their individual context. The UK Prime Ministers wife is Indian and astonishingly privileged. You are suggesting a poor mine worker from Romania is somehow more privileged based on how he looks.

Lumping people into loose categories (particularly based on skin colour) and then prescribing loose values to them is fascist and racist.

[–] [email protected] 47 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You are suggesting a poor mine worker from Romania is somehow more privileged based on how he looks.

You misunderstand the concept of privilege. It’s not linear. Intersectionality was devised to solve this exact contradiction.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 25 points 7 months ago (9 children)

Intersectionality is the idea that various forms of privilege and circumstance interact with each other to make an individual. Certain influences are more impactful upon a particular person's circumstances, and thus influence privilege to a much greater extent. The non-linear nature that DinosaurThussy is talking about can better be shown with examples.

If you're homeless and white it's clear that you're in a worse off situation than a billionaire who is black. Class status has a far greater influence on this situation. It would be fair to say that the black billionaire has more privilege due to his class status but not his ethnic identity. That being said, it's unlikely that the white man was denied a job due to his race in a way a homeless black person may be. Being poor and white and poor and black have many commonalities, but intersectional analysis allows us to understand the different ways and avenues that particular characteristics influences the ways that a person may end up in a particular circumstance.

The idea continues on. A person who is a billionaire may be significantly shielded from a lot of racism, or face it in a less extreme way. For example, that proverbial black billionaire likely wouldn't have many run ins with racist cops in impoverished neighborhoods. However, he still might face the unifying characteristic of being called a slur by his peers in the way that a poor black person might. His privilege of wealth may not complete inoculate him facing racism at all, even if he faces it in a less extreme way.

In essence, this situation is viewing individuals dialectic-ly. It seeks to understand how all of a person's identity and circumstances relate to the struggles and oppression certain groups or people may face in society.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

For example, just because a queer person is white does not mean they experience the same privilege as a cis het white person

Or how all women are oppressed, but the tribulations of white women are Not the same as those facing women of color or trans women, they face more and more varied forms of discrimination, but it doesn't mean that one is more important or valid than others, just materially different for example

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That poor mine worker is still in a better position than an otherwise identical minority would be in the same position.

A poor mine worker is in a tough place but at least he wasn't refused that job because the company doesn't hire non white people.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This exporting US culture shit has got to stop

We aren't talking about another mine worker. We are comparing 2 individuals with certain characteristics. You have instead decided to compare a third individual because the initial comparison made the concept break down

Just because someone is a certain color does not prescribe to them any specific value judgement. As soon as you do that, one of those categories becomes the ongoing scapegoat for everyone's problems, and it becomes fascist.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Does it ever occur to you that for your arguments to make sense you have to strip it of all context, historical perspecrive or material reality.

I literally didn't say anything about the us. I'm saying that Romanian is still better off than a minority in Romania that got discriminated again.

Any more reasons for you to smugly ignore everything everybody is repeatedly telling you.

For people who complain about how rude we are and how we're an echo chamber you're being shown an incredible amount of patience for how unbearably obtuse you're intentionally being.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

This is precisely the issue that I pointed at before, in reality, not everyone of a certain demographic has an advantage over everyone else of a certain demographic. Its a stupid point to attempt to initiate change because its flawed from the start

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

youre deliberately misinterpreting the concept of intersectionality, it includes class.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

I'm not deliberately mistinterpreting anything, if I don't understand something, then explain it to me.

Incredibly privileged of you to assume everyone else has your spoilt middle class educational background

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago (13 children)

You're posting to a niche reddit-clone that you only could've reliably found out about through either reddit, twitter, or mastodon. You have access to Google, you disingenuous twit.

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Incredibly privileged of you to assume everyone else has your spoilt middle class educational background

berdly-actually uhm, actually, it is in fact YOU who is the privileged one in this scenario, no I. check, and furthermore, mate

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (1 children)

if I don't understand something, then explain it to me.

ok so you have deliberately removed as many brain cells as possible from your brain, understood 07

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do you really think that you know all there is to know? Perhaps I know something that you don't, but you don't know what it is. What then?

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago (13 children)

This robs people of their individual context.

Is the context not that in STEM women often face sexism?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I honestly have to pretend that sexism in STEM is nowhere near as bad as I know it is for the sake of my own mental health. I've heard incredible stories of blatant sexism from colleagues and friends that I just can't fathom

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I've had to defend a close friend from repeated advances and touching, she was an engineer, he was 40 years older than her. It's a problem. I've had good friends get taken advantage of by a PI. Gross. It's the power dynamic in academia too where one person controls the career outcome of the PhD student. It's really nuts out there. It's getting better but that takes time and awareness. I've seen what the bad eggs do and they disgust me. It's not just men, but there are a lot of cases of it.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00795-1

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Not the "I know of this one poc that's in a position of power and so white privilege doesn't exist" argument lol