this post was submitted on 12 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 241 points 8 months ago (44 children)

Polls don't mean shit, go vote

[–] [email protected] 73 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, the polls had Hillary winning easily in 2016. Don't trust them.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 8 months ago (6 children)

They had her anywhere between a 70-90% chance to win. If you predict 90% chance that something will happen, and it always happens, your prediction is wrong because you should have predicted 100%.

When I hear someone say "you can't trust the polls because they got 2016 'wrong'" they are just telling me they don't understand statistics.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 8 months ago (2 children)

They had her anywhere between a 70-90% chance to win

And its important to note that these predictions were for the pop vote, which she did actually win, so they were actually right.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And its important to note that these predictions were for the pop vote, which she did actually win, so they were actually right.

I'm not sure this is entirely true. Many polls just look at the popular vote, but most of the polls that claim "chance of winning" take into account the EC.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

538 had her going into the election with a 70% chance of winning the electoral college. Nate Silver also went on multiple shows basically doing everything he could to get people to understand that meant 3 out of 10 times she loses.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No, 538 (and RCP?) actually has a rolling projection of 'real' chance to win the EC. But the chances of Hillary declined from >90% to 70% in the last week or so. When she was >90% everybody would say it looked like she was going to win, and that's what people remember.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

But the chances of Hillary declined from >90% to 70% in the last week or so.

Oh yeah, the Comey Probe. Back in the days when having the FBI open an investigation into you was enough to kill your presidential aspirations.

Or at least that was the case for Hillary Clinton and the moderate voter bloc, but somehow Donald Trump is not held to such high standards.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's been awhile since I read anything about that, but it seems like the last time I read about it, was something along: "80% of polls have Hillary projected to win", but the actual polls that they were using were all almost within the margin of error.

tl;dr 80% had Hillary winning by about 2-3%.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

margin of error

People in almost never speak about the margin of error when presenting a poll, especially one that's favorable to them.

f you look at the fine print, and see the margin of error percentage, then you apply the maximum amount to both people in the race, you'll see a lot of times it's a tie.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I understand the point you're making about probabilities, but we're speaking in the context of politics. Polls accurately predicted the results in 2008 and 2012. Something fundamentally changed in 2016, and the polls were off across the board.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

And "polls were historically accurate" in 2022.

And in reality we are talking about an weighted error difference of about 1.3/1.5 points between 2008/2012 and 2016. It's not like they got it massively wrong.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

You said something changed, and then I showed how last election they were actually more accurate than in the past. And I already pointed out that they were "wrong" about 2016. So I'm not sure what your point is about this.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

I know right? Some people haven't played XCOM, and it shows.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

they are just telling me they don’t understand statistics.

You're right, but in fairness to the regular person who gets their news from regular news outlets, they were being told that Clinton had a 98% chance of winning when in reality it was more like 75%. The fact is while everyone was cocky in 2016 and nervous in 2020 I was the opposite because I followed the polls and Biden in 2020 had consistently bigger leads on Trump than Clinton in 2016 with even bigger leads in swing states. His odds of winning were much greater than hers and the likely margin of victory was much higher, but they were being underestimated by a media machine that was absolutely snakebit after going all in on congratulating HRC in June for being the first woman president with a dem supermajority in both houses of congress and flipping Texas blue.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

What are you talking about? Polls are not valid statistics, they are riddled with biases that can't be eliminated.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

the polls had Hillary winning easily

Well Hillary didnt pay off her hookers 2 weeks before the election... like that kinda means he cheated. So Id say its a lot harder to win when you play by the rules. And Im not defending Hillary cuz I know she shafted Bernie, but what she did is not even on the same scope as what donnie rapist did/does on a daily basis.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

paying off hookers isn't actually cheating, the issue is that he used campaign funds to do it and that's fraud (but not electoral fraud)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

They do and they don't. Some people see polls and say "why bother". Some people see polls and scream "GET OUT AND VOTE". They may not be indicative of the final outcome, but they are a motivating factor for a lot of people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

The first sane take in this whole thread. Modern polling is unreliable when the margins for victory in certain elections can come down to literally a single vote in some cases.

Show up and get counted when it matters.

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