this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024
120 points (79.7% liked)

Electric Vehicles

3219 readers
108 users here now

A community for the sharing of links, news, and discussion related to Electric Vehicles.

Rules

  1. No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
  2. Be respectful, especially when disagreeing. Everyone should feel welcome here.
  3. No self-promotion
  4. No irrelevant content. All posts must be relevant and related to plug-in electric vehicles — BEVs or PHEVs.
  5. No trolling
  6. Policy, not politics. Submissions and comments about effective policymaking are allowed and encouraged in the community, however conversations and submissions about parties, politicians, and those devolving into general tribalism will be removed.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
120
You Need Way Less EV Range Than You Think: Study (insideevs.com)
submitted 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
158 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Data from thousands of EVs shows the average daily driving distance is a small percentage of the EPA range of most EVs.

For years, range anxiety has been a major barrier to wider EV adoption in the U.S. It's a common fear: imagine being in the middle of nowhere, with 5% juice remaining in your battery, and nowhere to charge. A nightmare nobody ever wants to experience, right? But a new study proves that in the real world, that's a highly improbable scenario.

After analyzing information from 18,000 EVs across all 50 U.S. states, battery health and data start-up Recurrent found something we sort of knew but took for granted. The average distance Americans cover daily constitutes only a small percentage of what EVs are capable of covering thanks to modern-day battery and powertrain systems.

The study revealed that depending on the state, the average daily driving distance for EVs was between 20 and 45 miles, consuming only 8 to 16% of a battery’s EPA-rated range. Most EVs on sale today in the U.S. offer around 250 miles of range, and many models are capable of covering over 300 miles.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

All the complexity of a gas engine

Batteries are more complex. A 200lb battery is less complex than 1000lb or 2000lb battery.

EDIT: I'm an electrical engineer. I can prove to you the complexities of a modern EV Battery. Or do you think 400V systems composed of parallel transistors, battery-management systems, and a whole slew of literally fucking computers estimating the internal-state of the thousands of individual cells that compose a modern EV is a "simple" task?

EDIT: Do you know what kind of degrees you need to design a battery-management system? To mass produce those circuit boards? And to do it all over again 2 years from now when all the chemistries change and therefore the internal estimates of each of these cells completely and drastically changes? No? Please stop pretending that "Batteries" are simple.

Case in point: it's the battery that will most likely fail in ALL of the discussed designs here. Why? Because chemistry is incredibly difficult and hasn't been solved yet. I do await for the future improvements in the EV battery pack that are sure to come over the next few years and decade... But let's not pretend that anything is done R&D yet.

The gasoline engine? Okay we're up to Atkinson cycle so that's a bit different but was around in the 1800s anyway. Nothing is really new or complex here. The engines mechanics were understood nearly two centuries ago.

There's a reason why gasoline engines are so reliable, while batteries keep having faults. Complexity has a lot to do with it.

What happens when you don’t use the gas engine for months and then go to start it with gelled gas?

If only computers existed and had timers that automatically burned off stale gasoline.

Also, just fill up 2 gallons or so to minimize the stale gasoline effect. You'll only be filling up once or twice a month with all the EV driving you'll be doing in practice.

You’re trying to solve a problem that the article shows doesn’t exist for 99%

No. The 800+ to 1500+ extra lbs of battery you lug around with a full 300mi electric car is what's actually being wasted in practice.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 months ago (17 children)

Batteries are absolutely not more complex than an internal combustion car. They’re newer, but not more complex.

load more comments (17 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sorry, fellow me/ee, disagree on complexity, having worked directly with both. Advantage of mechanical systems: theoretically predictable action, repeated endlessly so long as torque at the tires is req'd. Reality: tolerances in various parts open over time, resulting in a nonlinear decrease in efficiency and power. A symphony of hundreds of bolted joints, springs, tappets and valves, a sum of thousands of parts dancing while a complex ECU watches over the system. A single part or joint far enough out of tolerance will cause very, very expensive damage.

Battery powered vehicles: motor has full torque at close to zero RPM, all components in the control system are solid state, and software (always updateable) handles control decisions. Electric motor has 6 to 30 parts, based on whether liquid cooled or air cooled.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (45 children)

What do you mean with batteries will fail?

load more comments (45 replies)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

The batteries may be more complex, but not for the end-user.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

How many moving parts does that complex batter have, compared to a car engine?

What’s the normal operating temperature of that battery, compared to a car engine?

How many replaceable fluids are needed to keep that battery running, compared to a gas engine?