this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
153 points (92.7% liked)
Fediverse
28351 readers
529 users here now
A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to [email protected]!
Rules
- Posts must be on topic.
- Be respectful of others.
- Cite the sources used for graphs and other statistics.
- Follow the general Lemmy.world rules.
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I mean I get why people running open source, small software projects are going to find it hard not to be convinced just by the fact that they are probably getting their ego stroked super hard by meeting with extremely powerful and rich people… but this is such a stupid idea.
We don’t need meta, they don’t DO anything. What does meta do for the fediverse? Sure you can argue it brings in a ton of users but meta is a for-profit entity and it is never going to truly bring those users into the fediverse. Meta has an absurd amount of money, if they haven’t committed to creating a fediverse like idea in the past what makes everyone think now is different?
Why is a massive corporation with the money to fund 1000 fediverse software projects coming to a bunch of volunteers for help? Seriously, think about it, it really doesn’t make sense unless meta isn’t coming here for help but rather to mine and extract the value here for itself. We have ALREADY built most of the software tools that a too-big-to-function tech company with a lot of programmers could help with anyways, it is far too late in the game for meta to do anything meaningful there besides speed things up a little.
If we accept meta into the fediverse it might seem like we are winning by technically adding a ton of users but for heaven’s sake people need to realize winning doesn’t mean giving all your shit to the other side. The fediverse will become barely any better than the current corporate social network world, so what is the point?
I mean, they are NEVER going to invest in a significant amount of human moderators, that would basically admit the business model of a for-profit social network is fundamentally busted. They will “try” to do it with “””Ai””” and also through underpaid employees in moderation farms in third world countries who are constantly getting traumatized from having to see all the most offensive shit… but it is never going to work.
The question is, why did you come here in the first place? For me, letting meta in violates most of those reasons.
Wait, you mean you don't like how algorithms and ads have evolved to almost be content at this point. You don't want a bunch of for-profit ads suggesting you buy things you don't need? Lol, you're not in it for the cash grab? :OOOOO WHAT!?!?!?!?!
By that logic though, what does lemmy.ml do for the fediverse? Or mas.to? Or any specific instance? Nothing, they're one cog in a pool of federated instances.
And make no mistake, either the fediverse stays so tiny companies ignore it other than what Meta is doing now (to pre-empty EU legislation so they can point at supporting open interoperable formats), or we have to accept commercial enterprises will flood the fedi-space anyways if it takes off.
I agree, the entrance of large corporations into the fediverse is nearly inevitable and I am ok with that. What matters is how and when they do it and how that changes the politics, identity and community of the fediverse. WE have the cards because as you say corporate social networks that basically have monopolies are going to eventually be forced by regulation (unless we are on even shittier timeline than I thought) to join the fediverse or do something similar.
Think about the difference though between welcoming in meta to the fediverse like they are some cool popular kid that decided to join our lame party and now everyone wants to come to the party vs rejecting meta because we know their offer isn’t genuine and making them come back later to the fediverse in a much more precarious situation where they HAVE to work something out with us or they face geometrically growing legal and populist hostility that threatens the existence of their company?
Which situation is more likely to result in a relationship more advantageous to normal people and communities on the fediverse? Which one puts more power in the hands of small communities and regular people on the fediverse? Which one is less likely to result in meta hijacking the public’s perception of the fediverse and subverting the reasons that the original denizens of the fediverse came here for?
I’m not okay with it.
I’m all for cutting federation with any instance that allows them in to their space.
I think that is a good and healthy stance. No matter if it is right or not, I consider the survival of the idea of the fediverse as a separate space than corporate social networks requires there to be communities on the fediverse that reject corporate entities on principle.
To use books as a metaphor, let’s say bookstores pioneered the idea of spaces that people can get books at. This is basically what happened with social networks (I know there are probably wrinkles to this but whatever).
The fediverse may look like a bookstore superficially. We could think of it is a building with people dedicated to managing a large selection of books. People go in and out to get books. Trucks periodically come with large orders of books and those books are then distributed over time to people that visit the building.
The fediverse isn’t a bookstore though, it is a library and it’s important that we don’t let that fact be forgotten.
Nothing about the technology of the fediverse is really that special (though it is very impressive I am sure), it is the human structure and the idea of the fediverse as an entity that makes it special. In the same way that the difference between a bookstore and a library can’t really be found in different patterns of delivery trucks, book rentals or the arrangement of bookshelves in the building, neither can the difference between the fediverse and existing corporate social networks truly be found in the technical specifications. At the end of the day, the real difference is in what humans see as the goals of a library vs a bookstore, i.e. the real difference is how the people involved in creating and maintaining the fediverse conceptualize the fediverse itself.
Which isn’t to say I am against certain parts of the fediverse having companies involved, but it is very important that we win the ideological battle of defining social networks as communities to be maintained (which may or may not be a paying job for those involved) for the betterment of society, as a public service, not as an entity conceived to pursue profit.
I think it is fantastic that communities are immediately rejecting meta on principle. Nobody, no matter their position on this, should be genuinely interested in meta’s first real attempt at joining the fediverse. It is just a silly way to go about interacting with an entity that has far more to lose than you do and has demonstrated time and time again that it cannot be trusted to tell the truth or act in good faith.
We don’t have to grow at a viral rate, sure the fediverse being much larger is probably a good thing for the world and thus pushing for it can be seen as a moral imperative, but let’s not kid ourselves, this is social media and memes, this isn’t some life giving essential service. It is ok if we don’t grow as absolutely fast as possible. The people that the fediverse is truly most life changing for anyways are the people most deeply hurt and traumatized by awful experiences on corporate social media where the corporation at best is neutral about bigotry, death threats, harassment etc….. *sigh *
To bring it back to libraries, look at how the best libraries in communities have grown to be far more than just places people can borrow books from. They are fluid community spaces where interesting ideas can take hold and flourish. Bookstores never really grow past the idea of selling books, except maybe to have a cafe attached. The best modern day libraries on the other hand are spaceships of community (that happen to be stuffed with books) in a wasteland of private and commercial real estate, they are engines of culture.
Let’s not let the fediverse get stuck on just being a better bookstore…
kick em back to the curb
lemmy.ml is the flagship instance. that's like asking what mastodon.social does for the fediverse.
Yeah what do they? Just their size? So if Threads brings in huge amounts of federation users that'd automatically make them relevant and useful to have around? Size matters, especially when it comes to your federated instance?
it's not their size. they are literally the developers.
Meta could take over the fediverse pretty easily once they've been here for a while.
Yes, Threads will be technically just an instance of a federated network with thousands of instances. But Threads is so fucking big in comparison that most posts will come from there. And at that point, they can impose their algorithms and recommendations on us.
this is a joke, right? lemmy instances which i participate in have done a far better job of moderation and protecting minorities than any experience i have had on a meta product. i cant begin to tell you how many times ive reported content on meta services that is a blatant call to violence, only to have it come back “no violations found.” and im far from the only one
safety. safety is what lemmy.ml/lemmy.blahaj.zone/mas.to bring to the fediverse. and where one instance fails, another is available to pick up slack. i refuse to subscribe to the notion that playing gullible for an institution which profits off the attention span of children is the only way for me to socialize online. you shouldn’t either. we all need to get over ourselves with this “must take off” language.