this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2024
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Privacy

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This is an article written by telegram's founder and CEO Pavel Durov in 2019 on "Why whatsapp will never be secure". Your thoughts?

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[–] [email protected] 85 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (8 children)

Sure, fuck WhatsApp, but Telegram isn't even end-to-end encrypted most of the time. Their group chats never are, and their "secret chat" encryption for non-group chats must be explicitly enabled and hardly ever is because it disables some features. And when it is encrypted, it's with some dubious nonstandard cryptography.

It's also pseudo open source; they do publish source code once in a while but it never corresponds to the binaries that nearly everyone actually uses.

And the audacity to talk about metadata when Telegram accounts still require a phone number today (as they did five years ago when this post was written) is just... 🀯

State-sponsored exploits against WhatsApp might be more common than against Telegram, or at least we hear about them more, but it's not because the app is more vulnerable: it's because governments don't need to compromise the endpoint to read your Telegram messages: they can just add a new device to your account with an SMS and see everything.

(β•―Β° Β°οΌ‰β•―οΈ΅ ┻━┻

Anything claiming to prioritize privacy yet asking for your phone number (Telegram, WhatsApp, Signal, ...) is a farce.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Anything claiming to prioritize privacy yet asking for your phone number (Telegram, WhatsApp, Signal, ...) is a farce.

Yeah, sure. The privacy farce signal.

I'm getting tired of this stupid hardline-take.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Shit, 2019 really was five years ago.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Telegram isn't perfect, but it is infinitely better than Whatsapp because it doesn't belong to Facebook, and also isn't from the United States. Also it can be used by normies without problem, unlike Matrix or Xmpp or what have you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Brother, it has servers all over the world (including the US) where it hosts your data unencrypted. Telegram is nearly not inifinitely better than WhatsApp.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sure, WhatsApp exposes you to US jurisdiction and Meta bullshit. At the same time, Telegram is very friendly with the Kremlin and associated intelligence services. So it basically comes down to whether you want to be spied on by Russian or US entities.

Source: Wired cover story

Wired story from a year ago about the FSB using Telegram to track down political activists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Thats just speculation. The fact remains most of the Ukrainians (including their president) used telegram to raise their voice.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

If you'd read the linked sources, you'd know that it's not just speculation. Regardless of Telegram's user base, it cooperates with Russian authorities. That remains true whether or not Ukranians use it to communicate. I'm not blaming Telegram for cooperating with Russian authorities as it's well known that not doing so leads to drastic authoritarian measures.

But don't take my word for it: Wikipedia: Blocking of Telegram in Russia

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

And the audacity to talk about metadata when Telegram accounts still require a phone number today (as they did five years ago when this post was written) is just… 🀯

Not only that, but I believe that they actively try to prevent VoIP numbers from being used to create accounts.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Bravo, bravo, bravo!!

Dude, see you on the same side of the barricades when the time comes to fight the centralized army of agent Smiths πŸ‘πŸ‘πŸ‘

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Signal is just fine. This with the PhoneNumber is a really stupid hardliner-take.

Something can be private without being anonymous.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Read up on Xmpp or matrix as good alternatives.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Matrix not yet untill they implemented proper encryption and security stuff

SimpleX is pretty cool

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Simplex - requires nothing, just install. But you connect with other people by sending a code outside of SimpleX. Though they've added a directory service for groups.

XMPP

Wire (not Wiremin), though it requires an email account, which is easily addressed with a disposable email.

Signal is very secure from what I've read, despite the phone number identifier.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't agree with everything but that last point of yours. Requiring your phone number only means your are not anonymous. There is no need to be anonymous to communicate privately. In fact, it can be counterproductive, since your are much more vulnerable to social engineering.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

And also not secure if somebody sim swapped you, and then your privacy goes into the hands of the FSB agent who sim swapped you

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Signal is great. Stop being overzealous