this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2023
1922 points (97.9% liked)

People Twitter

5383 readers
636 users here now

People tweeting stuff. We allow tweets from anyone.

RULES:

  1. Mark NSFW content.
  2. No doxxing people.
  3. Must be a tweet or similar
  4. No bullying or international politcs
  5. Be excellent to each other.
  6. Provide an archived link to the tweet (or similar) being shown if it's a major figure or a politician.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 138 points 1 year ago (9 children)

We really need to stop calling things "AI" like it's an algorithm. There's image recognition, collective intelligence, neural networks, path finding, and pattern recognition, sure, and they've all been called AI, but functionally they have almost nothing to do with each other.

For computer scientists this year has been a sonofabitch to communicate through.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

But "AI" is the umbrella term for all of them. What you said is the equivalent of saying:

we really need to stop calling things "vehicles". There's cars, trucks, airplanes, submarines, and space shuttles and they've all been called vehicles, but functionally they have almost nothing to do with each other

All of the things you've mentioned are correctly referred to as AI, and since most people do not understand the nuances of neural networks vs hard coded algorithms (and anything in-between), AI is an acceptable term for something that demonstrates results that comes about from a computer "thinking" and making ~~shaved~~ intelligent decisions.

Btw, just about every image recognition system out there is a neural network itself or has a neural network in the processing chain.

Edit: fixed an autocorrect typo

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (21 children)

No. No AI is NOT the umbrella term for all of them.

No computer scientist will ever genuinely call basic algorithmic tasks "AI". Stop saying things you literally do not know.

We are not talking about what what the word means to normies colloquially. We're talking about what it actually means. The entire point it is a separate term from those other things.

Engineers would REALLY appreciate it if marketing morons would stop misapplying terminology just to make something sound cooler... NONE of those things are "AI". That's the fucking point. Marketing gimmicks should not get to choose our terms. (as much as they still do)

If I pull up to your house on a bicycle and tell you, "quickly, get in my vehicle so I can drive us to the store." You SHOULD look at that person weirdly: They're treating a bicycle like it's a car capable of getting on the freeway with passengers.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

What I've learned as a huge nerd is that people will take a term and use it as an umbrella term for shit and they're always incorrect but there's never any point in correcting the use because that's the way the collective has decided words work and it's how they will work.

Now the collective has decided that AI is an umbrella term for executing "more complex tasks" which we cannot understand the technical workings of but need to get done.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sometimes, but there are many cases where the nerds win. Like with technology. How many times do we hear old people misuse terms because they don't care about the difference just for some young person to laugh and make fun of their lack of perspective?

I've seen it quite a lot, and I have full confidance it will happen here so long as an actual generalized intelligence comes along to show everyone the HUGE difference every nerd talks about.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

But it will be called something different so almost nobody will notice that they now should see the difference

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is in fact how common language works, and also how jargon develops. No one in this thread outside of the specific people pointing out the problem cares what it is beyond the colloquial use, keep jargon to the in group, or you'll just alienate the out-group and your entire point will be missed.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No computer scientist will ever genuinely call basic algorithmic tasks "AI". Stop saying things you literally do not know.

Speak for yourself. Many of us fought that battle literally years ago and then accepted reality and moved on with our lives. Show me an actual computer scientist still hung up on this little bit of not-so-new-anymore language and I'll show you a dying curmudgeon who has let the world pass them by. We frequently use AI to refer to these technologies that we have today and we've started to use more descriptive language such as post-singularity AI or Artificial General Intelligence (AGI).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Hard agree. I don't consider myself a "computer scientist", but I do have a CS degree. The public use of AI is so far gone it's just what it is now. I still wouldn't consider path finding AI, but when you say an AI image creator, or AI chat bot it gets the point across well enough since we all know what is meant.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Calm down , language is fluid, you may not like it, but if enough people start using it as an umbrella term, that is what it's colloquially and eventually officially going to be soon. You can't expect to have such hard set rules this early on in the technology, it's foolish

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

To be fair, AI was coined to mean programs written in LISP and it changes every time new techniques are developed. It's definitely just a marketing term, but for grant money.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You're talking in a forum to a bunch of normies using words colloquially, or to a bunch of media buffoons who report to nornies who are familiar with colloquial terms. I get your point if you're talking to engineers, but you're not

load more comments (15 replies)
load more comments (10 replies)
[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think you're fighting a losing battle.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

You're right, but so is the previous poster. Actual AI doesn't exist yet, and when/if it does it's going to confuse the hell out of people who don't get the hype over something we've had for years.

But calling things like machine learning algorithms "AI" definitely isn't going away... we'll probably just end up making a new term for it when it actually becomes a thing... "Digital Intelligence" or something. /shrug.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It isn't human-level, but you could argue it's still intelligence of a sort, just erstatz

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I dunno... I've heard that argument, but when something gives you >1000 answers, among which the correct answer might be buried somewhere, and a human is paid to dig through it and return something that looks vaguely presentable, is that really "intelligence", of any sort?

Aka, 1 + 1 = 13, which is a real result that AI can and almost certainly has recently offer(ed).

People are right to be excited about the potential that generative AI offers in the future, but we are far from that atm. Also it is vulnerable to misinformation presented in the training data - though some say that that process might even affect humans too (I know, you are shocked, right? well, hopefully not that shocked:-P).

Oh wait, nevermind I take it all back: I forgot that Steven Huffman / Elon Musk / etc. exist, and if that is considered intelligence, then AI has definitely passed that level of Turing equivalence, so you're absolutely right, erstatz it is, apparently!?

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

This problem was kinda solved by adding AGI term meaning "AI but not what is now AI, what we imagined AI to be"

Not going to say that this helps with confusion much 😅 and to be fair, stuff like autocomplete in office soft was called AI long time ago but it was far from LLMs of now

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago

AI = "magic", or like "synergy" and other buzzwords that will soon become bereft of all meaning as a result of people abusing it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

There's whole countries that refer to the entire internet itself as Facebook, once something takes root it ain't going anywhere

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Computer vision is AI. If they literally want a robot eye to scan their cluttered pantry and figure out what is there, that'll require some hefty neural net.

Edit: seeing these downvotes and surprised at the tech illiteracy on lemmy. I thought this was a better informed community. Look for computer vision papers in CVPR, IJCNN, and AAAI and try to tell me that being able to understand the 3D world isn't AI.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're very wrong.

Computer vision is scanning the differentials of an image and determining the statistical likelihood of two three-dimensional objects being the same base mesh from a different angle, then making a boolean decision on it. It requires a database, not a neutral net, though sometimes they are used.

A neutral net is a tool used to compare an input sequence to previous reinforced sequences and determine a likely ideal output sequence based on its training. It can be applied, carefully, for computer vision. It usually actually isn't to any significant extent; we were identifying faces from camera footage back in the 90s with no such element in sight. Computer vision is about differential geometry.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Computer vision deals with how computers can gain high level understanding of images and videos. It involves much more than just object reconstruction. And more importantly, neural networks are a core component is just about any computer vision application since deep learning took off in the 2010s. Most computer vision is powered by some convolutional neural network or another.

Your comment contains several misconceptions and overlooks the critical role of neural networks, particularly CNNs, which are fundamental to most contemporary computer vision applications.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks, you saved me the trouble of writing out a rant. I wonder if the other guy is actually a computer scientist or just a programmer who got a CS degree. Imagine attending a CV track at AAAI or the whole of CVPR and then saying CV isn't a sub field of AI.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Shouldn’t there be a catch all term to explain the broader scope of the specifics?

Science is a broad term for multiple different studies, vehicle is a broad term for cars and trucks.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Glorified chatbots. Tops. But definitely not something with any kind of intelligence.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yesterday I prompted gpt4 to convert a power shell script to Haskell. It did it in one shot. This happens more and more frequently for me.

I don't want to oversell llms, but you are definitely underselling them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is that not a type of AI already?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, there's an argument over not calling machine learning AI in this very thread, so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

So why suggest it for the catch all term for AI when it’s only one portion of the argument itself? Such a strange suggestion,

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So people think of programming instead?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Language is fluid, and there is plenty of terminology that is dumb or imprecise to someone in the field, but A-ok to the wider populace. "Cloud" is also not actually a formation of water droplets, but someone's else's datacenter, but to some people the cloud is everything from Gmail to AWS.

If I say AI today and most people associate the same thing with it (these days that usually means generative AI , i.e. mostly diffusion or transformer models) then that's fine for me. Call it Plumbus for all I care.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Those are all very specific intelligences. The goal is to unite them all under a so-called general intelligence. You're right, that's the dream, but there are many steps along the way that are fairly called intelligence.

load more comments (1 replies)