this post was submitted on 09 Dec 2023
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After a decent apprenticeship, a lot of people would.
No shit, the apprenticeship is the exact thing we claim makes a difference.
We can argue where exactly we should draw the line: Is a two year apprenticeship required to qualify as skilled labor? Or is 6 months enough already? Maybe even a one month training course can be considered enough to learn a skill. But the fact is that some jobs require more training than others. And this distinction is worth making in some situations.
I worked in unskilled Labor before, a few minutes teaching so I know what to do, maybe two hours supervised to make sure I don't fuck up and that's it.
An apprenticeship is enough to be a biochemist? Lmao go touch some grass.
Training is training regardless of how you receive it isn't it? Perhaps you should take your own advice.
An unskilled job can be learned in an afternoon. That’s the difference.
Said someone who's never mastered it. I have a college education myself. And work in IT. I'm just not that much of an egoist to disrespect people like you do. I've met truly skilled and great people doing menial jobs and not being compensated enough. You wouldn't last a week at most of these jobs. You feel you could master in an afternoon. Simply because you'd be dealing with people like yourself.
No one is claiming that it’s not possible to hone your floorsweeping skills over the course of 50 years and become a sweeper yoda. What they are saying though, is that the difference between the yoda and the apprentice is neglibile from a customers perspective. That’s just factual, if the apprentice wasn’t good enough for the average client, the yodas would be in high demand and be able to set their own rates, thus becoming skilled labor.
Because if your employer doesn’t pay what you’re worth to other employers, you go to those other employers.
It’s easier than ever to see what jobs are worth as many locations require employers to publish salary bands or hourly rate right on the internet. You can find all the jobs near you that are similar and compare pay without so much as going on an interview.
A couple of things. First off, teaching is unique - every public school I’m aware of is unionized. Which is to say there is a collective bargain between the workers and the district. Teachers have far more say in their pay than non-union employees.
Secondly, they can go teach in private schools if they pay more or change careers if they think they can get paid more or have a better quality of life doing something else.
Or they can simply try to get people to vote down their next CBA if they think they aren’t paid enough and force the district to pay more.
Third, I never said anything is “worth it”, but the calculus for teachers is different. The CBA getting voted on by the teachers means your compensation is heavily backloaded towards end of career and retirement. You also have significantly better benefit plans than private sector jobs, because that’s what the union membership voted for.
You can retire in most school districts after 20 years and get paid 2/3rds of your salary for life. Good luck doing that in the private sector. Which is why you’ll also probably get paid less than other jobs with comparable skill sets over those 20 years.
The school districts will start paying more money, that’s how this works. It takes a while, there will be short term shortages before school districts renegotiate the CBA and a lag before more college kids get teaching certificates.
Or states will lower the requirements to be teachers, and hire less qualified teachers, and more middle-and-above income households will send their kids to private or charter schools.
You have a lot more power in the union than you think - at least collectively. The people you elect negotiate the CBA. And then you get to vote on that CBA. Convince your peers to vote no next time until you get a better contract.
Legally prevented from striking… what does that even mean. If you strike they can fire you? If you’re going to quit anyway, who cares? Lots of states (37) make it unlawful for public employees to strike. They do it anyway. And win.
Or don’t, and find a new job.
Teacher salaries suck - but they also sucked 5, 10 and 20 years ago too.
I’m telling you that you shouldn’t be surprised it’s the way it is. Because it was this way when you started.
Every union seems to do this - they backload pay and benefits. It happens to pilots (until the most recent CBA rounds) and flight attendants too. They get paid literally almost nothing and have to share rooms with 4 other people until they’ve gotten 10-20 years in, in which case they start making pretty decent money.
Teachers are the same. They vote for you to make $30,000/yr with shitty raises, but at 30 years in you’re making $100k/year and will retire with $66k/year for the rest of your life in addition to social security.
Adjusted slightly based on district.
It’s always been like this and you knew it when you started.
Sure, try to improve it and make it better - but don’t act surprised like it’s new.
If only everyone got CEO raises, too bad not everyone is a CEO.
I don’t know why you think calling something an unskilled job is more derogatory than a menial job.
But can anyone learn your job in an afternoon? No.
You can replace a factory line worker with literally almost any human, you can’t be replaced by anyone who doesn’t have a background in IT, at least without months or years of training.
That’s not ego it’s just reality.
It doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a living wage. But if you’re gushing about how everyone is a skilled laborer while talking to someone who makes 1/10th what you do they’re probably going to think you’re a dick.
I don't understand the need to dogpile on someone who is simply stating that jobs needn't be divided by skill because all jobs need skills. Racking hay and stacking it up is a skill. Picking and sorting the good from the bad fruit or veggies is a skill. Interacting with mean and disrespectful people who couldn't care less about your feelings and pretending to be friendly is a skill. Flipping burgers before someone yells at you for taking more than two minutes is a skill.
Obviously, their argument with the biochemist was wrong, and they were misguided, but why the need to pray on their downfall? It's useless to divide jobs, because they all have skills.