this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Let's establish the situation. There's only two outcomes of the election. Any other possibilities are so remote we can dismiss then.

  1. Biden wins. The status quo continues.

  2. Trump wins. More Palestinians and innocent children die.

There is a clear outcome here that is going to be worse and kill more people. You have three options on how to act:

A. Vote for Biden

B. Vote for Trump

C. Don't vote for either of them

If you pick A, 1 becomes more likely. If you pick B, 2 becomes more likely. If you pick C, 2 also becomes more likely because of the electoral college. If you pick A or B, you'll feel guilty. If you pick C, you'll (incorrectly) feel like you're innocent and not complicit.

You say you care about the people dying. That means you want the outcome with the least deaths, 1. If you want to outcome 1, you should pick A. Why are you refusing to?

No one here is delightfully voting for the genocide to continue. We want to stop it, but that isn't an option. Shouldn't we then act to minimize the death toll as much as we possibly could?

A child who survives in outcome 1 could die in outcome 2. If you don't strive for outcome 1, you have blood on your hands. Do you care more about having a falsely clear conscience, or do you want to save lives? It's very easy to say you want none of them to die. It's not as easy to take an action that you know will still result in people dying, but it kills fewer people.

If you are genuine in your convictions, and I choose to believe that you are, I am confident that you'll make the decision to try and save lives, at whatever personal cost to yourself.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I care about not supporting the killing of children.

If you actually cared, you wouldn’t give in to the lesser option.

Genocide is genocide is genocide.

Call me complicit if you want.

I will not actively support genocide in any form.

I can not stop it but I can not support it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Do you care more about supporting the killing of children than you actually do about the killing of children itself? You're putting your morals ahead of human lives.

I'm not pleased to pick a lesser option, but there is no realistic option that will stop all the death instantly. You don't have to like it, but you have to acknowledge reality. This is going to continue no matter how you vote. All you can do is influence how many people it'll affect, and hope that puts us on a road to outright stopping these things in the future. Do you think Israel would feel so emboldened if Trump wasn't a possible leader?

And this doesn't even take into consideration other issues. Ukraine needs to be able to defend itself from Russia. If they don't get military support, Russia will kidnap and kill even more children. Republicans don't seem to care about that, but Democrats are pushing for that military support to happen. Here there is an option for your vote to stop the death of children. I wish it was Palestinian AND Ukrainian children, but the world is a shitty place, and all we can do is try to make it less shitty.

So I ask again. Do you care more about supporting the killing of children, at the expense of the actual killing of children?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

Do you support killing children at all?

Why is this only confusing to Americans?

Every other country in the world other than ours sees what they are doing.

Withdraw our support and then see if Israel is still willing to keep up their actions over the last few decades.

They wouldn’t have done any of this shit because they would’ve known that they would’ve got their asses handed to them by everyone around them.

You cannot in anyway get me to support those genocidal bastards.

They are using the US aegis to do all of this and it is time we withdraw that.

Let them deal with the consequences of their own actions for once.

Maybe it will give them the attitude adjustment they need, if they want to toss around nukes then they will become an international pariah.

It won’t matter soon anyway, you will get what you want, Israel will massacre tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands and after that people like you will say “ oh well, there’s nothing we can do about it now let’s just forgive them and try to move on” and then they’ll do the same fucking thing as Putin is doing over and over and over just like all of the other innocent safe killed over fucking decades and you guys still want to support them