this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2023
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And likewise, what is the end goal with Biden, or anyone else?
Something that strikes me with all of these justifications I see from Americans about why they have no choice but to support a system that produces malicious, mass murdering white supremacists like Biden is the selfishism inherent in the excuses. The smol bean idpol self pity. "I'm trans so he'll genocide me instead of millions of foreigners." is a common one I'm seeing around. Or worse again, "I have to protect my trans allies by supporting genocide."
If someone puts a gun to my head and tells me to kill someone else or they'll kill me, you know what, I'm not killing anyone. Let them kill me, I'm not playing their game.
Something like 4.5 million dead in your name over the past 20 years and it's all "poor me, if I don't help them do these things then I might suffer instead".
Nobody's saying you have to go on an adventurist spree but you need to absolutely not be taking part and be prepared to lose all your friends and family over this latest atrocity. This one's the worst in quite a while. You'll have plenty of license to run your mouth at length.
Biden can be voted for as a means to an end. Vote by mail and be done with it. Don't run your mouth about it as if you did a great service to your country and only treat it like paying a parking ticket that has a slight chance to slow fascism. More time should be spent building a party that has a means of overtaking this wreached system. I notice that most socialist parties either have no idea how to sieze power or are keeping their cards to their chests (for good reason).
You think you can vote your way out of this? Yea. Okay.
No the major strategy is not voting clearly. Any real work to build socialism will take alot more time than it takes to fill out a ballot. I'm just suggesting to fill out a ballot and mail it because why not. It is a tool available that might be less awful. Treat it like paying a speeding ticket, shamefully do it and don't bother to tell anyone about it. Let your real work be outside the electoral process.
It's demeaning to you and directly supports a fascist system.
Ok its all about ego then, not anything practical. If it hurts ya that much, then yea don't do it. Put in all efforts towards building socialism comrade.
What do you see as the practical benefits of supporting fascism? If we were back at the last election you would have voted for genocide.
It's not that it hurts me personally, it hurts the working class of your country. I already put in efforts to build socialism.
Technically speaking, between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, I don't think that there would be a difference in their policy towards Palistine. Thus, your actions via voting have 0 impact on genocide. In America, one can't not choose fascism. No vote => fascism. Vote red => fascism. Vote blue => fascism. There are some small particular differences between red and blue. Team red explicitly wants sexual minorities to suffer. Team blue does not. Team red wants to ban books. Team blue does not. There are some small differences. You can choose to vote to influence the result if you are in the part of the country that the funhouse mirror of the US election system cares about.
You can vote on the small differences to slow down even worse harm that the state will do to the people domestically. Those small differences seem to be diminishing each election cycle. Unionizing, educating people on how capitalism works, protesting, , all can push socialism more effectively, I don't dispute it.
I don't see how voting hurts the working class as a whole. Between the choice of voting vs not voting, can you tell me based on material results, how voting is a worse choice than not voting? In many cases I'd understand the explanation its a waste of time for someone because of their location is heavily weighted towards team red or blue already. The working class is screwed regardless of voting vs not voting. In those cases the material difference between voting and not voting is the feeling of the individual voter. Thus I say that the only real reason not to vote is because of one's feelings. However if one is in a place that the system cares about, one can vote for the least awful option for the small material differences between red and blue.
That is my understanding. The real reason not to vote is because the only real difference is likely that the cost of how bad it makes you feel outweighs what you understand the very minor positive results of your actions (and in many cases no change at all). I'm just saying don't deny it is about your feelings. Where is my logic faulty?
You do that by not voting for it.
Yes but not with your support.
Not voting doesn't cost you your morality. Voting to support fascism makes you a fascist enabler. Complaining that you're a willing hostage doesn't cut it or give you any ethical excuse.
You're gambling that you think you know which is worse. You got it wrong last time, Biden's genocide proves that even if his war in Ukraine didn't already. And now you want to gamble again, betting your soul on it.
The whole "justifying the support of genocides abroad" because it might alleviate the suffering of a tiny sliver of a percentage of Americans, who are 4% of the world part. i guess American ~~lives~~ comfort ~~are~~ is more important.
" No vote => fascism.
Yes but not with your support."
What does this "support" actually do? I'm saying it is nearly worthless in the positive direction to vote for the blue team. You are saying how voting for blue team is worse than not voting at all without substantiating it.