▲ 76 ▼ Commentary: We face a world potentially running out of antibiotics (www.channelnewsasia.com) submitted 2 years ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/news@beehaw.org 77 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Swallowtail@beehaw.org 11 points 2 years ago (2 children) Go vegan. It's better for the planet too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago (2 children) How does reducing land and water use through your food choice not help the planet? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) it doesn't actually reduce the use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies) [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies) [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in "cheese mountain" type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc. That being said, 'commie' is a terrible communicator if that's what they're trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you're on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the 'invisible hand of the free market' does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] java@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago Proof? permalink fedilink source parent [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) It takes less land and water to feed someone wheat, soy or corn than to feed them beef, chicken or pork. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) what crops that are fed to beef chicken and pork are parts of plants that people won't eat for the most part. The same fields that grow the soybeans we use for oil are growing soybeans that are used as feed. The same soybeans that are used for oil are used for feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop. Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) but beef, chicken, and pork continue to be made in increasing amounts. things are getting worse despite the fact that vegans exist. being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago I know, i am vegan for those reasons and more :) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 years ago (2 children) being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago (2 children) How does reducing land and water use through your food choice not help the planet? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) it doesn't actually reduce the use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies) [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies) [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in "cheese mountain" type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc. That being said, 'commie' is a terrible communicator if that's what they're trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you're on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the 'invisible hand of the free market' does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] java@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago Proof? permalink fedilink source parent [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) It takes less land and water to feed someone wheat, soy or corn than to feed them beef, chicken or pork. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) what crops that are fed to beef chicken and pork are parts of plants that people won't eat for the most part. The same fields that grow the soybeans we use for oil are growing soybeans that are used as feed. The same soybeans that are used for oil are used for feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop. Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) but beef, chicken, and pork continue to be made in increasing amounts. things are getting worse despite the fact that vegans exist. being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amzd@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago (2 children) How does reducing land and water use through your food choice not help the planet? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) it doesn't actually reduce the use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies) [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies) [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in "cheese mountain" type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc. That being said, 'commie' is a terrible communicator if that's what they're trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you're on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the 'invisible hand of the free market' does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] java@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago Proof? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) it doesn't actually reduce the use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies) [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies)
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 6 points 2 years ago (2 children) Please don't tell me you're gonna bring up the stupid soy fields in the rain forest argument :'D permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies) [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies)
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) being vegan doesn't stop soy from being grown in rainforests permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies)
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) exactly, because almost 100% of that soy is for meat production permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies)
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) 85% of global soy is pressed for oil. the vast majority of the soy that's fed to animals is the industrial waste from that process. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies)
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago (18 children) Wheree do you get your numbers from? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1254608/soy-production-end-uses-worldwide/ They seem off my guy. Weird to not provide real numbers for someone calling me a liar permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 18 child comments load more comments (18 replies)
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) environmental destruction continues whether you are vegan or not. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent [–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies)
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago also what part of my comment prompted you to post that random response? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 1 point 2 years ago (14 children) yep due to the meat industry keeping going regardless of a fairly small demographic quitting their products permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 14 child comments load more comments (14 replies)
[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You are making the false assumption that your consumption is causative to the production of animal products which is, unfortunately and non-intuituvely, untrue. The only difference between vegan and non-vegan diets is whether animal products end up on your plate vs. in "cheese mountain" type stockpiles, exports, landfills, etc. That being said, 'commie' is a terrible communicator if that's what they're trying to say. Going vegan does help to highlight some of the contradictions of capitalism and you're on the right track as it should be advocated for. However, the 'invisible hand of the free market' does not translate veganism to any reduction in farmed animals, land or water use. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply) [–] java@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago Proof? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] amzd@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) “If you don’t buy it a company will throw it away instead” is not a very good argument to buy something if you even believe it to be true at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying the act of "not buying it" (even if it was a complete and total boycott) has no impact on the production due to the system of subsidies, futures, derivatives, etc. that is set up explicitly to make sure production continues. And therefore has no impact on land/water usage, suffering etc. With the point being that it's a good first step, but if your expectation is it will change anything without first changing the underlying system you will be very disappointed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent [–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply) load more comments (1 reply)
[–] amzd@kbin.social 4 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your argument is called the nirvana fallacy; “World peace would be ideal; this peace treaty fails to completely achieve world peace; therefore this peace treaty is not worth doing.” And I do not accept that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago it's not a nirvana fallacy. they're actually right, being vegan has no impact at all. a peace treaty actually creates peace. buying beans just means beans are sold, it doesn't do anything to change any of the problems. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rautapekoni@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 years ago* (1 child) Surely the societal pressure to change the systems that support factory farming of animals will grow pretty much in proportion with the vegan/vegetarian population? I don't like the defeatist attitude that our choises as consumers don't matter, at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] SinAdjetivos@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's not defeatist, it's pushing back against the wishful thinking that "voting with your dollar" is effective and your responsibility ends there. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment load more comments (1 reply)
[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (2 children) It takes less land and water to feed someone wheat, soy or corn than to feed them beef, chicken or pork. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) what crops that are fed to beef chicken and pork are parts of plants that people won't eat for the most part. The same fields that grow the soybeans we use for oil are growing soybeans that are used as feed. The same soybeans that are used for oil are used for feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop. Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) but beef, chicken, and pork continue to be made in increasing amounts. things are getting worse despite the fact that vegans exist. being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) what crops that are fed to beef chicken and pork are parts of plants that people won't eat for the most part. The same fields that grow the soybeans we use for oil are growing soybeans that are used as feed. The same soybeans that are used for oil are used for feed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop. Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 child) This is sometimes true. However, e.g., about 4% of the farmland in California is used for alfafa, which is just for livestock. Alfafa is also a very water intensive crop. Additionally, there are other uses that livestock corn feed could be put to if there weren't so many damn cows, so it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) it's not like we'd be throwing away megatons of silage if it weren't for cattle. I don't think there is a better use than making food. I'm fine with that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago feeding it to cows DOES make it into food. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child) but beef, chicken, and pork continue to be made in increasing amounts. things are getting worse despite the fact that vegans exist. being vegan doesn't help the planet at all. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fuzzywolf23@beehaw.org 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) World population increase + westernization of diets in China outweigh the tiny number of vegans in the western world. Your math doesn't check out. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago make any excuse you like for why being vegan doesn't help. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] shapesandstuff@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago I know, i am vegan for those reasons and more :) permalink fedilink source parent