▲ 721 ▼ DOJ announces arrests in ‘high-end brothel network’ used by elected officials, military officers and others (www.cnn.com) submitted 2 years ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world 184 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] David_Eight@lemmy.world 145 points 2 years ago (17 children) Why is sex work even illegal in the first place. permalink fedilink source hideshow 26 child comments replies: [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 89 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 years ago (1 child) Seas he also the fella that said “Getting paid for sex is illegal… UNLESS YOU RECORD IT!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (2 children) For years I've contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn. We have a building and several "sets" with cameras recording, customer picks their "partner" and "set" and "shoot the porn", after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server). The customer isn't paying for sex, they are paying for the video. Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases. But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it's video taped so you won't beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] oshu@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply) [–] quindraco@lemm.ee 54 points 2 years ago The underlying assumption is the same as in abortion: that women can't be entrusted with agency over their own bodies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hillock@kbin.social 34 points 2 years ago (5 children) Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Studies across Europe have shown that countries that outlaw prostitution see a decrease in human trafficking victims while countries that legalized or decriminalized it see an increase. Unlike with drugs, you don't just create a way to increase the supply. A very small minority of women actually want to engage in sex work. And the few who do, usually envision the high class escort lifestyle. But working in a brothel charging $100 per client isn't something many want to do. But legalizing prostitution increases demand. Which makes it more profitable for criminals to utilize human trafficking to fill that demand. https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ One source of it. It also doesn't help at all with protecting victims of human trafficking. Victims of human trafficking are already protected. But they don't step forward because of threats against their own well being and that of their families. Something that doesn't change just because their work technically is legal now. Which leaves a small percentage of people who fall into financial hardship and consider prostitution as a method of overcoming said hardship. For them that might slightly improve their situation. But that still means exploiting vulnerable people and isn't people engaging in sex work because they want to. And it's even questionable if people in these scenarios would follow the legal way. So while initially it might seem like legalizing it solves a lot of issues, it is more difficult than that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Furedadmins@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago Us laws regarding sex work are firmly based in puritanical values not out of any concern whatsoever regarding trafficking. permalink fedilink source parent [–] crackajack@reddthat.com 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) I reckon that even though sex work is legalised, and still caused issues, the problem is that there is no government regulation. It's one thing to say by the government that they won't prosecute sex workers, but if it's not regulated and abuse still happens then nothing changed for all intents and purposes. Best analogy I could think of is like allowing food factories to manufacture food, of course. But if there is no regulatory watchdog to monitor and test to make sure food factories are not putting random and dangerous stuff into food, then legalising an activity is pointless. Basically, the sex industry having been legalised by many countries is unofficially a libertarian set up. Yeah, the government exists and allow sexual transactions between agreeing parties, but they're hands off on how the practitioners in the industry would conduct business. There is no government agency for sex workers to complain to if they're abused. I know people would ask, how exactly would the government regulate sex? That, I will leave to policy experts. Edit: wording permalink fedilink source parent [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago We all sell our bodies for profit. To be fair though, wage theft is the most common form of theft. We're all prostitutes and we're almost all being taken advantage of, and we're in a system where we can't really get out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ExLisper@linux.community 3 points 2 years ago government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then. My guess is that it's just more difficult to control prostitution than it is to control construction work. Construction happens in the open, you need to get tons of permits, multiple companies are involved, inspectors check everything regularly. It would be difficult to force some people to work on a construction site without anyone realizing. But how are you going to make sure that each sexual intercourse in some strip bar is 'legal'? Are you going to put inspectors in bathroom stalls? How can you check every cash transaction? It's pretty much impossible. You can monitor the sex work that's advertised and happening 'in the open' but there will always be some grey and black market for it. And the ugly stuff will happen there. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (9 children) I see this single study trotted out every time the subject comes up and the key factor to take into account is that this is reported trafficking. If legalized sex work means more light is shed on human trafficking that means more can be done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Yes, because legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps. It's very easy to see an (alleged) "rise in sex trafficking" when the legalization shuffle allows politicians to all of a sudden decide what is "allowed" sex work and what is "sex trafficking." This is why shitty studies like the one you linked is so thoroughly non-credible - it was performed without the input of the people who actually know what they are talking about - ie, sex workers themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (4 children) What the fuck are you talking about? legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps So what's the solution?? You just made random assertions without any sources and didn't suggest any alternatives. All while skimming over the very real trafficking/coersion problems unique to sex work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies) [–] stella@lemm.ee 23 points 2 years ago Puritan values. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Asafum@feddit.nl 19 points 2 years ago (2 children) My bet is on America's conservative puritan history where anything good is bad. Also sex trafficking. At least that's the argument for keeping it illegal. :( permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Plague_Doctor@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago I believe the reason sex trafficking happens is because sex work is illegal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Which is bollocks anyways because illegalization actually makes things less safe for all sex workers, but especially for trafficking victims who are now legally marginalized into dark number status permalink fedilink source parent [–] momtheregoesthatman@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago Old white men elected themselves under the guise of voting (gerrymandering who?) and are too embarrassed and confused to allow women the rights they have as humans. Isn't democracy silly. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago I'd say the diagram of "Why is sex work illegal" and "Why is abortion illegal" is almost a perfect circle. It's about contolling other peoples' bodies and weakening the separation of church and state. permalink fedilink source parent [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (10 children) Sex work differs from most other type of work in one very significant way - it's an industry in which capitalists cannot really control the means of production unless slavery (ie, a person can become the private property of another) is legalized and institutionalized. In other words, a sex worker - for the most part - is not as easily coerced into selling their labor to capitalists like most workers can be, and capitalists hate when people have a way to opt out of being hosts for their parasitism. Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests. This is not to say that sex work is automatically a revolutionary, anti-capitalist or even "empowering" thing by itself - there are plenty of ways in which our socio-economic systems allows and enables de facto slavery without calling it slavery - but it certainly doesn't fit into the neat class hierarchy that capitalists wants society to be trapped within. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] crackajack@reddthat.com 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're reading too much into it. The primary reason is puritan values. To be fair, the taboo on promiscuity is likely due to the lack of contraceptives and risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases. But access to contraceptives and education would lessen the risks these days. Though people are still creatures of habits so sex and sex work are still taboo for many without questioning why it has been in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago You’re reading too much into it. No, I'm not... in fact, I'm not even scratching the surface. permalink fedilink source parent [–] stella@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (9 children) Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests. cough, what? No, it reinforces those norms. Men in power get to have women at their beck and call. This isn't a capitalist thing. Just look at how profitable the sex industry is in Nevada. It's a "holier than thou" thing that we just haven't been able to get rid of in our society. As much as I like calling out greed for what it is, this simply isn't one of those cases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) [–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago (9 children) Wait till you learn that you can be self employed outside of sex work. For the most parts its just christian morality still ingrained in our society. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) load more comments (7 replies) [–] Igloojoe@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) AFAIK, it's not federally illegal, but mostly every state bans it. As how Nevada can have prostitution. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago You're correct, it is not federally illegal in the US. Most things aren't. Murder isn't, either. However, traveling across state lines with a prostitute has gotten people in trouble with the federal government before. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (8 replies)
[+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 89 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 years ago (1 child) Seas he also the fella that said “Getting paid for sex is illegal… UNLESS YOU RECORD IT!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (2 children) For years I've contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn. We have a building and several "sets" with cameras recording, customer picks their "partner" and "set" and "shoot the porn", after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server). The customer isn't paying for sex, they are paying for the video. Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases. But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it's video taped so you won't beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] oshu@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 years ago (1 child) Seas he also the fella that said “Getting paid for sex is illegal… UNLESS YOU RECORD IT!” permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (2 children) For years I've contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn. We have a building and several "sets" with cameras recording, customer picks their "partner" and "set" and "shoot the porn", after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server). The customer isn't paying for sex, they are paying for the video. Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases. But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it's video taped so you won't beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] oshu@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] vrek@programming.dev 14 points 2 years ago (2 children) For years I've contemplated the idea if I came into a bunch of money if starting a porn studio where the customer is an actor/actress in the porn. We have a building and several "sets" with cameras recording, customer picks their "partner" and "set" and "shoot the porn", after they are done the video is burned on to a dvd(or blue ray or potentially put on a private file server). The customer isn't paying for sex, they are paying for the video. Pretty sure it would have a ton of legal push back and I would need a lot of money for the lawyers to fight the cases. But 1. Safer for everyone imvolved(it's video taped so you won't beat/hurt/kill the other party) 2.technically legal just like shooting porn permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] oshu@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] oshu@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (3 children) Think there is a big group of customers for sex who want it captured on video? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent [–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (1 reply)
[–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago Not to mention the possible tie ins...imagine if the studio partnered with onlyfans... Or offered special spaces with live streaming(with permission) to people's Webcam sites. "remember to join the stream this Saturday where we will be on location in the pleasure dome's sunset beach set for a special sex on the beach adventure" permalink fedilink source parent
[–] vrek@programming.dev 1 point 2 years ago They get the only copy... I don't care if the watch it, post it online or just it for skeet shooting with a shotgun. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] quindraco@lemm.ee 54 points 2 years ago The underlying assumption is the same as in abortion: that women can't be entrusted with agency over their own bodies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Hillock@kbin.social 34 points 2 years ago (5 children) Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Studies across Europe have shown that countries that outlaw prostitution see a decrease in human trafficking victims while countries that legalized or decriminalized it see an increase. Unlike with drugs, you don't just create a way to increase the supply. A very small minority of women actually want to engage in sex work. And the few who do, usually envision the high class escort lifestyle. But working in a brothel charging $100 per client isn't something many want to do. But legalizing prostitution increases demand. Which makes it more profitable for criminals to utilize human trafficking to fill that demand. https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ One source of it. It also doesn't help at all with protecting victims of human trafficking. Victims of human trafficking are already protected. But they don't step forward because of threats against their own well being and that of their families. Something that doesn't change just because their work technically is legal now. Which leaves a small percentage of people who fall into financial hardship and consider prostitution as a method of overcoming said hardship. For them that might slightly improve their situation. But that still means exploiting vulnerable people and isn't people engaging in sex work because they want to. And it's even questionable if people in these scenarios would follow the legal way. So while initially it might seem like legalizing it solves a lot of issues, it is more difficult than that. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] Furedadmins@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago Us laws regarding sex work are firmly based in puritanical values not out of any concern whatsoever regarding trafficking. permalink fedilink source parent [–] crackajack@reddthat.com 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) I reckon that even though sex work is legalised, and still caused issues, the problem is that there is no government regulation. It's one thing to say by the government that they won't prosecute sex workers, but if it's not regulated and abuse still happens then nothing changed for all intents and purposes. Best analogy I could think of is like allowing food factories to manufacture food, of course. But if there is no regulatory watchdog to monitor and test to make sure food factories are not putting random and dangerous stuff into food, then legalising an activity is pointless. Basically, the sex industry having been legalised by many countries is unofficially a libertarian set up. Yeah, the government exists and allow sexual transactions between agreeing parties, but they're hands off on how the practitioners in the industry would conduct business. There is no government agency for sex workers to complain to if they're abused. I know people would ask, how exactly would the government regulate sex? That, I will leave to policy experts. Edit: wording permalink fedilink source parent [+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago We all sell our bodies for profit. To be fair though, wage theft is the most common form of theft. We're all prostitutes and we're almost all being taken advantage of, and we're in a system where we can't really get out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ExLisper@linux.community 3 points 2 years ago government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then. My guess is that it's just more difficult to control prostitution than it is to control construction work. Construction happens in the open, you need to get tons of permits, multiple companies are involved, inspectors check everything regularly. It would be difficult to force some people to work on a construction site without anyone realizing. But how are you going to make sure that each sexual intercourse in some strip bar is 'legal'? Are you going to put inspectors in bathroom stalls? How can you check every cash transaction? It's pretty much impossible. You can monitor the sex work that's advertised and happening 'in the open' but there will always be some grey and black market for it. And the ugly stuff will happen there. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hark@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (9 children) I see this single study trotted out every time the subject comes up and the key factor to take into account is that this is reported trafficking. If legalized sex work means more light is shed on human trafficking that means more can be done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Yes, because legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps. It's very easy to see an (alleged) "rise in sex trafficking" when the legalization shuffle allows politicians to all of a sudden decide what is "allowed" sex work and what is "sex trafficking." This is why shitty studies like the one you linked is so thoroughly non-credible - it was performed without the input of the people who actually know what they are talking about - ie, sex workers themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (4 children) What the fuck are you talking about? legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps So what's the solution?? You just made random assertions without any sources and didn't suggest any alternatives. All while skimming over the very real trafficking/coersion problems unique to sex work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Furedadmins@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago Us laws regarding sex work are firmly based in puritanical values not out of any concern whatsoever regarding trafficking. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] crackajack@reddthat.com 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) I reckon that even though sex work is legalised, and still caused issues, the problem is that there is no government regulation. It's one thing to say by the government that they won't prosecute sex workers, but if it's not regulated and abuse still happens then nothing changed for all intents and purposes. Best analogy I could think of is like allowing food factories to manufacture food, of course. But if there is no regulatory watchdog to monitor and test to make sure food factories are not putting random and dangerous stuff into food, then legalising an activity is pointless. Basically, the sex industry having been legalised by many countries is unofficially a libertarian set up. Yeah, the government exists and allow sexual transactions between agreeing parties, but they're hands off on how the practitioners in the industry would conduct business. There is no government agency for sex workers to complain to if they're abused. I know people would ask, how exactly would the government regulate sex? That, I will leave to policy experts. Edit: wording permalink fedilink source parent
[+] elbarto777@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago We all sell our bodies for profit. To be fair though, wage theft is the most common form of theft. We're all prostitutes and we're almost all being taken advantage of, and we're in a system where we can't really get out. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ExLisper@linux.community 3 points 2 years ago government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then. My guess is that it's just more difficult to control prostitution than it is to control construction work. Construction happens in the open, you need to get tons of permits, multiple companies are involved, inspectors check everything regularly. It would be difficult to force some people to work on a construction site without anyone realizing. But how are you going to make sure that each sexual intercourse in some strip bar is 'legal'? Are you going to put inspectors in bathroom stalls? How can you check every cash transaction? It's pretty much impossible. You can monitor the sex work that's advertised and happening 'in the open' but there will always be some grey and black market for it. And the ugly stuff will happen there. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 years ago We all sell our bodies for profit. To be fair though, wage theft is the most common form of theft. We're all prostitutes and we're almost all being taken advantage of, and we're in a system where we can't really get out. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ExLisper@linux.community 3 points 2 years ago government bodies being incompetent at protecting the victims, then. My guess is that it's just more difficult to control prostitution than it is to control construction work. Construction happens in the open, you need to get tons of permits, multiple companies are involved, inspectors check everything regularly. It would be difficult to force some people to work on a construction site without anyone realizing. But how are you going to make sure that each sexual intercourse in some strip bar is 'legal'? Are you going to put inspectors in bathroom stalls? How can you check every cash transaction? It's pretty much impossible. You can monitor the sex work that's advertised and happening 'in the open' but there will always be some grey and black market for it. And the ugly stuff will happen there. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hark@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (9 children) I see this single study trotted out every time the subject comes up and the key factor to take into account is that this is reported trafficking. If legalized sex work means more light is shed on human trafficking that means more can be done about it. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies)
[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Because one of the biggest issues with sex work, human trafficking, gets worse with legalization. Yes, because legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps. It's very easy to see an (alleged) "rise in sex trafficking" when the legalization shuffle allows politicians to all of a sudden decide what is "allowed" sex work and what is "sex trafficking." This is why shitty studies like the one you linked is so thoroughly non-credible - it was performed without the input of the people who actually know what they are talking about - ie, sex workers themselves. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (4 children) What the fuck are you talking about? legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps So what's the solution?? You just made random assertions without any sources and didn't suggest any alternatives. All while skimming over the very real trafficking/coersion problems unique to sex work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies)
[–] WldFyre@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (4 children) What the fuck are you talking about? legalizing sex work is just criminalizing sex work with extra steps So what's the solution?? You just made random assertions without any sources and didn't suggest any alternatives. All while skimming over the very real trafficking/coersion problems unique to sex work. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get. permalink fedilink source parent load more comments (3 replies)
[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 2 years ago I was totally onboard with them but the longer they talk the weirder the takes get. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 19 points 2 years ago (2 children) My bet is on America's conservative puritan history where anything good is bad. Also sex trafficking. At least that's the argument for keeping it illegal. :( permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Plague_Doctor@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago I believe the reason sex trafficking happens is because sex work is illegal. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Which is bollocks anyways because illegalization actually makes things less safe for all sex workers, but especially for trafficking victims who are now legally marginalized into dark number status permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Plague_Doctor@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago I believe the reason sex trafficking happens is because sex work is illegal. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago Which is bollocks anyways because illegalization actually makes things less safe for all sex workers, but especially for trafficking victims who are now legally marginalized into dark number status permalink fedilink source parent
[–] momtheregoesthatman@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago Old white men elected themselves under the guise of voting (gerrymandering who?) and are too embarrassed and confused to allow women the rights they have as humans. Isn't democracy silly. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago I'd say the diagram of "Why is sex work illegal" and "Why is abortion illegal" is almost a perfect circle. It's about contolling other peoples' bodies and weakening the separation of church and state. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (10 children) Sex work differs from most other type of work in one very significant way - it's an industry in which capitalists cannot really control the means of production unless slavery (ie, a person can become the private property of another) is legalized and institutionalized. In other words, a sex worker - for the most part - is not as easily coerced into selling their labor to capitalists like most workers can be, and capitalists hate when people have a way to opt out of being hosts for their parasitism. Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests. This is not to say that sex work is automatically a revolutionary, anti-capitalist or even "empowering" thing by itself - there are plenty of ways in which our socio-economic systems allows and enables de facto slavery without calling it slavery - but it certainly doesn't fit into the neat class hierarchy that capitalists wants society to be trapped within. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 13 child comments replies: [–] crackajack@reddthat.com 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're reading too much into it. The primary reason is puritan values. To be fair, the taboo on promiscuity is likely due to the lack of contraceptives and risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases. But access to contraceptives and education would lessen the risks these days. Though people are still creatures of habits so sex and sex work are still taboo for many without questioning why it has been in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago You’re reading too much into it. No, I'm not... in fact, I'm not even scratching the surface. permalink fedilink source parent [–] stella@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (9 children) Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests. cough, what? No, it reinforces those norms. Men in power get to have women at their beck and call. This isn't a capitalist thing. Just look at how profitable the sex industry is in Nevada. It's a "holier than thou" thing that we just haven't been able to get rid of in our society. As much as I like calling out greed for what it is, this simply isn't one of those cases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) [–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago (9 children) Wait till you learn that you can be self employed outside of sex work. For the most parts its just christian morality still ingrained in our society. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies) load more comments (7 replies)
[–] crackajack@reddthat.com 10 points 2 years ago (1 child) You're reading too much into it. The primary reason is puritan values. To be fair, the taboo on promiscuity is likely due to the lack of contraceptives and risks of getting sexually transmitted diseases. But access to contraceptives and education would lessen the risks these days. Though people are still creatures of habits so sex and sex work are still taboo for many without questioning why it has been in the first place. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago You’re reading too much into it. No, I'm not... in fact, I'm not even scratching the surface. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago You’re reading too much into it. No, I'm not... in fact, I'm not even scratching the surface. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] stella@lemm.ee 6 points 2 years ago* (9 children) Sex work also has a way of subverting patriarchal norms upon which the status quo rests. cough, what? No, it reinforces those norms. Men in power get to have women at their beck and call. This isn't a capitalist thing. Just look at how profitable the sex industry is in Nevada. It's a "holier than thou" thing that we just haven't been able to get rid of in our society. As much as I like calling out greed for what it is, this simply isn't one of those cases. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies)
[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 4 points 2 years ago (9 children) Wait till you learn that you can be self employed outside of sex work. For the most parts its just christian morality still ingrained in our society. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 9 child comments load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Igloojoe@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago (1 child) AFAIK, it's not federally illegal, but mostly every state bans it. As how Nevada can have prostitution. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] rchive@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago You're correct, it is not federally illegal in the US. Most things aren't. Murder isn't, either. However, traveling across state lines with a prostitute has gotten people in trouble with the federal government before. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rchive@lemm.ee 1 point 2 years ago You're correct, it is not federally illegal in the US. Most things aren't. Murder isn't, either. However, traveling across state lines with a prostitute has gotten people in trouble with the federal government before. permalink fedilink source parent