this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2023
1060 points (95.1% liked)

World News

38987 readers
1973 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Finland ranked seventh in the world in OECD's student assessment chart in 2018, well above the UK and the United States, where there is a mix of private and state education

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A genius being around average people will pull them down. It's a good thing to concentrate our smartest children in an environment that lets them learn with equally intelligent peers. There might not be enough hyper intelligent kids in a geographical region to warrant the resources required to fully support that minority of students. Nothing I said was conspiratorial.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dude, gifted programs. Advanced classes. They are together. This is really easy. Any reasonably sized school will have enough to fill out an advanced class.

And this ensures all students can live up to their potential! How about that? Instead of only the ones that can afford stupid high tuition. Who have to pass screening, and wait times, and wait lists, and then long commutes. If you want more advanced people in society, the way you do that is opening the doors to more people, at all points in their life, right where they live.

And what the other guy said about selective public schools.

And yes you're on about government approved education dogwhistle and authoritarianism. Dude, you're right down conspiratorial thinking.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Almost every good private school has extensive financial aid programs. At the private school I went to, they had blind financial aid, meaning you got accepted first and if you couldn't afford it, you would get in for free, so there was no discrimination against poor people.
I'm not against gifted programs and more resources being allocated to public schools. But private schools play an important role in this imperfect system and getting rid of them "because it's unfair" just brings people down.
It's not a conspiracy to suggest that public schools abide by a government approved curriculum. You are way too sensitive. You can improve public schools without making private schools illegal, is my point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You know what's even better than financial aid? Not needing it in the first place! Because you have excellent public schools. Which works for everyone, at all times, in all locations.

Had a bad year and couldn't get the grades to make it to private school that one year? Well now you can pay attention to the excellent teachers you have in public school.

Can't take the 1+ hr bus ride to a school far away? Well you can have an excellent school 10 minutes away.

And this all also starts in grade 1. Or Kindergarten if we get that sorted out. So you have good education before you ever have marks in any substantial way. This starts wayyyyy earlier than you're portraying. How do you think someone can develop at later stages when they don't have good schooling to begin with? Really I can't emphasize this enough. Smart people don't just pop up out of the blue and then we whisk them away to private school. How do you think people become smart or capable in the first place? We need good, public, accessible, education from the very start.

m “because it’s unfair” just brings people down.

Oh you're still stuck in your mentality that public schools "bring people down". I think you have this because that's all you've ever seen. You can't seem to conceive of good public schools, that have gifted programs, that don't "bring people down", that can in fact bring people up.

When rich and upper class don't use the public schools, there is zero incentive to make them work. As seen by the current state of the US. It's so bad that, like I said, you can't even seem to conceive of a public system that doesn't "bring people down". It's so bad that you've defined the public system as "bringing people down". That it must "bring people down". You've said it multiple times.

And yes saying "government approved education" is a thinly veiled dog whistle. If there was any doubt it was gone when you said authoritarianism. You just don't like that I called it out, so you have to say I'm "way too sensitive".

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not saying the public school system indiscriminately brings people down, but for the intellectual top 1% of kids it definitely can. stop thinking in absolutes. I think it's a good thing for smart kids to hang out with smart kids. Believe it or not, different degrees of intelligence require different needs to allow children to reach their full potential. I believe that private schools are great in making sure that potential is met. It's up to the schools themselves to allocate funding rather than a government bureaucracy, which is notoriously inefficient and frankly always will be, especially at scale. Advocate for improving funding to public schools so private schools would be unnecessary instead of making the choice on behalf of people.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

for the intellectual top 1% of kids it definitely can.

Really? Do I have to add caveats to everything I say? It's already long enough. But this is also about wayyyy more than the top 1% of kids, this is about everyone. You want a more capable society? That means everyone.

I think it's a good thing for smart kids to hang out with smart kids.

Again, advanced classes. This is so simple.

Believe it or not, different degrees of intelligence require different needs

Again, advanced classes.

private schools are great in making sure that potential is met

Again, advanced classes.

And again, this means more students potential is reached. And that more students have the opportunity to become smart and educated from the very beginning. I notice you don't respond to any of that, you're back to acting like smart people just spring out of the blue to be whisked away to private schools. Think about how many people never intellectually developed in the first place because they never had good education to begin with. You want more smart people in society? The solution is public schools to develop those smart people.

government bureaucracy, which is notoriously inefficient and frankly always will be, especially at scale.

And now you define public schools as inefficient and all those connotations. Just like how you defined things before.

Seriously, it seems you can not even conceive of good public schools that yes serve and educate top students well (but again these students don't just pop up out if the blue, they are educated from the very start).

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But this is also about wayyyy more than the top 1% of kids, this is about everyone. You want a more capable society? That means everyone.

Hmms seems like you are implying here that it does actually bring those 1% of kids down for the betterment of the rest. I thought it wouldn't bring kids down?

It's a simple difference of opinions. I believe that private schools are better empowered to allocate resources to produce the best result since it bypasses government bureaucracy. That's it. Acting like "advanced classes" is some sort of own that defeats the purpose of private schools is a cop out frankly.

You want more smart people in society? The solution is public schools to develop those smart people.

This can happen without making private schools illegal.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Hmms seems like you are implying here that it does actually bring those 1% of kids down for the betterment of the rest. I thought it wouldn't bring kids down?

Lol no I didn't imply that. See that "also"?Now you're making things up. I thought you were better than this.

Because this is also about all of society (see that also?) But I see your game now. You have to try to limit this to top 1%. It's a fake construct on my argument that you have to limit things to. I wonder if you're going to strawman this now.

It's a simple difference of opinions

I think the basis of this is that you can not even conceive of public schools that serve both top students and students well. (Insert all the words: also, in addition, etc),

Acting like "advanced classes" is some sort of own that defeats the purpose of private schools is a cop out frankly.

Lol that addresses your arguments where I said it. You want top students to hang out together? They do, in advanced classes.

You want their needs to be met? They are, in advanced classes.

Etc.

And all the other factors that you never respond to, like availability, travel time, wait lists, that smart people don't spring out of the blue to be whisked away to private schools and that they are developed and educated from the start.

This can happen without making private schools illegal.

Like I already said, when rich and upper class don't use the public system there is zero incentive to make it work well.

Really, you can't even conceive of a public system that works well for top and also (see that also?) students.

Yeah I see your other game too, you want me to excessively add caveats to everything I say now. The first time may have been legit, but now you read implications that aren't there just so I have to add more caveats. Nice games. But I think that shows you've graduated to bad faith and I'm just pointing out what I've already said because it addresses it all, so I think I'm done. Cheers.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

You type so much and say so little. It's impressive really.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are over 160 selective secondary state/public schools in England. Being state run does not prevent the existence of selective schools.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And they were able to do so without banning private schools

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've not suggested otherwise, so I don't know why you felt compelled to point that out.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The thread you are replying to is about banning private schools

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And yet my comment did not suggest any views in either direction and only addressed the specific point of selective schools.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago

Cool, but context is a thing.