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submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

Obligatory Sold a Story podcast link.

I can't help but feel that a lot of this is deliberate, the end result of decades of dismantling the public education system to further divide kids into the upper class in private schools, religious fundamentalists in home schooling, and everyone else abandoned to keep the population uneducated and in worse economic precarity.

Somebody please tell me that the kids are alright yea

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[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 years ago

There's a difference between literacy and composition, though.

Also, I've seen plenty of instruction guides that do a piss poor job of telling you exactly what to do.

Idk how many people straight up can't read a menu or a newspaper. But I've seen ample evidence to suggest it less than "a lot"

[-] [email protected] 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yeah I'm talking about people who fail to follow all the steps in a bullet-pointed four step guide, or just completely omit one or two crucial sentences which state how important doing the thing in the sentence is. People who can do it if I just read the paragraph or steps out to them while they follow them.

According to this

21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2023.

54% of adults have a literacy below 6th grade level.

On average, nationwide, 66% of 4th grade children in the U.S. could not read proficiently in 2013.

And just to confirm that it's a US education problem:

34% of adults who lack proficiency in literacy were born outside the US.

The majority of illiterate adults were educated in the US.

yea

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago

According to this

I'm not saying I don't implicitly trust Forbes, HuffPo, and TechCrunch journalists...

But these are the same folks constantly trying to fix education by privatizing it.

"66% of 4th grade children in the U.S. could not read proficiently in 2013."

I just have no scope for this. What is "read proficiently"? Is that high or low for 4th graders? Why did we move from "6th grade reading standards" to "4th grade reading standards" inside two bullet points?

I've spent my whole life being told how schools are failing to teach basic skills, but university enrollment and professional work forces have only grown over that time.

The problems in the education system are well established. But the "nobody can read!" trope is so heavily sensationalized that I'm reluctant to take it seriously on its face.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 years ago

Literacy isn’t just reading the words and having a basic understanding, literacy also involves how comprehensively you understand what you’re reading and the critical thinking skills to engage with what you’re reading. And it’s the latter two parts that are severely lacking in our education system.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Maybe. But I see quite a bit of naked disinformation in mass media that can't really be refuted unless you abandon the outlets themselves entirely.

Comprehension only gets you so far on third hand info. At some point, when all your media resources say X, you're going to believe X whether or not its true.

That's not "education" per say. It's access to data.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 years ago

That’s a good point, but it’s not exactly against what I’m saying. With poor literacy it’s very easy to internalize propaganda because you lack the critical thinking skills and broader knowledge base that enhanced literacy provides you. Those tools are what is necessary to dismantle propaganda, and those are the tools that aren’t being effectively learned in school.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

With poor literacy it’s very easy to internalize propaganda because you lack the critical thinking skills and broader knowledge base that enhanced literacy provides you.

Sure. But even advanced literacy won't save you from an abundance of misinformation. Just ask Thomas Aquinas or Emmanuel Kant.

You can have an extremely well researched and erudite debate over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

With poor literacy it’s very easy to internalize propaganda

I'm not sure how related these are, there are plenty of highly literate people are extremely propagandized, and vice versa
definitely a bad thing on the whole though

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

I think at a base level of "Can read and communicate concepts and ideas" it's true that the USA is literate but in the sense of having strong reading comprehension and the ability to synthesize/critique based off of that comprehension, we absolutely suck.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 years ago

having strong reading comprehension and the ability to synthesize/critique based off of that comprehension

I see plenty of long winded heavily overanalyzed power posters on Reddit. But when they treat the CIA Factbook as gospel and denounce Seymour Hersh as Fake News...

That's not a comprehension issue. It's a trust issue.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

Critical thinking issue too, imo

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Garbage in, garbage out. Critical thinking only gets you so far.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 years ago

I'm saying that learning to distinguish garbage from not garbage is an important facet of critical thinking

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

Yes. But those same skills, absent reliable information, can be subverted.

What you're describing is ultimately just an understanding of institutions. Having a very well refined understanding of libraries doesn't get you useful data if you're trapped in the fiction section.

Ask Decartes how that works. "What am I able to know is true?" is a very fundamental philosophical question without many bulletproof answers.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Fair enough, thank you for explaining where you're coming from, have a good day

this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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