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this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2023
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the_dunk_tank
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Their neutrality makes them popular with both developing countries who want to get support from China and the US, but it also means they don’t push for changes in corrupt and tyrannical governments, so you get shit friendliness with countries like Israel and Saudi Arabia. But compare that to the US, where they’ll nominally force you to “improve” your government and human rights, pillage your country, coup it when someone stands up to them, and STILL be friendly with Israel and Saudi Arabia.
We could’ve had that if it weren’t for the CIA and Shah of Iran
ASEAN and India would disagree with that.
Not gonna say you're wrong about India, obviously there's a ton of animosity there - the infighting over who should join BRICS+ really exemplifies it - but when you look at things like trade flows over the last decade then they have been constantly increasing. I think part of China's charm, strategy even, is that even if the government of X country dislikes China for Y political reason, the economic logic of increasing ties in a capitalist system is hard to fight against. Capitalists want profit.
A little more confused about ASEAN, can you expand on that? Sure, not everybody in ASEAN is particularly glad about China's increasing regional power, but most of them seem to be okay outside of naval disputes. This statement published just a couple weeks ago at the 26th ASEAN-China Summit sounds fairly positive about their relationship and boosting ties.
"Hi, do we ever have an offer on rope for you!"
More economic ties with China does not necessarily mean these countries want to have friendlier cultural ties with China. ASEAN and India have territorial disputes, aside from ideological differences. The trade deals are just business, and therefore not reflective of what the countries really think of China whether they could be seen as ally, to be trusted, etc.
The only developing nations I see who are in more warmer and friendlier terms with China are in Africa. But even many local Africans complain of how many Chinese firms does business (debt trap, not hiring locals, etc).
economic ties matter because the US, the hegemon of the present economic order, is trying to cut China out of said economic ties. culture is a superstructure built on top of the material base. not to mention, worrying about how two countries on the other side of the world "feel" about each other is peak liberal cope.
You're not wrong about US wanting to remain hegemon, but no one from democratic countries would want to align to countries with you know... authoritarian. Surveys still show that much of the world still prefer the US as a superpower, despite many countries wanting to trade with China. Having trade relations does not mean the parties are friends. More often than not, countries are just business partners. That's called realpolitik-- and a cynical one at that. Countries that are even allied still want something in return. A lot of white Western champagne socialists never bother to research, ask or get to know the actual opinions of those from countries who are being bullied by China in South China Sea from their exclusive economic zones. Japan, China, South Korea and ASEAN signed a trade union, but it doesn't mean they will all relinquish their own territorial claims. For many white Western champagne socialists, the conditions of black and brown people they purport to try to alleviate from Western imperialism are tools for exploitation for their own ideological self-masturbatory, pat-on-the-back congratulations.
Another factor why the US is still preferred than China as the global power is because US has better soft power, something that China could never amount to. The totalitarianism of China is something that many will not be impressed by. Not trying to make the US flawless, it's clear they aren't, it's just that they're lesser evil than China. Oh and before anyone says anything about US being worse than China and vice versa, I know they're both bad; this isn't evil Olympics. Many people surveyed thinks both countries are threat to world peace.
The US is way more authoritarian than China, probably the most authoritarian country in the world by any reasonable metric, so I don't see your point.
A fundamentally ridiculous assertion, the US is many orders of magnitude more evil.
Cope all you want, keep engaging in the echo chamber of self-fellating champagne socialist circles who take for granted the freedom of speech and rule of law while sitting in front computer at the comfort of one's own house in a Western country, but the link I gave showcasing many developing nations think China and US are both threats is not going to change. White Western socialists never really do think what other countries think. They're just as condescending and guilty of white man's burden mentality as imperialistic white capitalists that brown and black people in developing countries can't think for themselves. Both believe either Western-made ideologies of socialism and capitalism will save people of colour from their misery.
You're a clown, lick my nuts.
Spoken like a pampered, jobless, welfare queen living in his mother's basement.
Youve made not a single argument as to why or how China is a "greater evil" than the US, you deserve nothing but mockery in response to such a nonsensical assertion. And it's telling that you have to reach for ridiculous claims about your interlocutors who you know nothing about instead of reaching for any actual argument, which is what you would do if you had one. On some level I think you actually know the US is worse or you would have attempted to argue the point instead of making stuff up about me.
These sinophobes really can't help themselves and fall apart so easily upon even a bit of scrutiny.
Which one has concentration camps for Muslim minorities and bully their neighbours? Which one arrests and send their citizens to concentration camps for criticising their government?
Well, actually, I just realised you are a communist judging from your profile picture. Of course, you're having cognitive dissonance right now. I always take pleasure when champagne white communists are speechless after being called out for their hypocrisy, and when they find out I'm a person of colour with lived experiences under authoritarian regimes, so they can't retort with anything with slurs they normally reserve to their fellow whites. Speaking of which, I would dare you and see your true colours show.
Ah sorry, you didn't get the memo, that one doesn't play any more!
The deradicalization campaign finished and now that terrorism is over, the schools closed down.
All 10-15,000 people involved now know Mandarin and a trade.
Yes, anything that comes from state-controlled media are to be believed. It is though hundreds and thousands of Uyghurs, who have better things to do like put food on their table for their family, would collectively lie about how they're being treated. This is why many countries-- as linked in my previous comment-- did say they prefer the United States as a great power nonetheless. Chinese authoritarianism is brazen and on the face. Funny how no one mentioned what Vietnam, Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia think of China's presence in South China Sea, and why they conduct military exercises and host bases for European and US military. I dare any white champagne socialists and communists in here to give slurs to me what they do to fellow whites who criticise communism.
(am I in a tankie community? The subreddit name is confusing. That might explain some coping in here.)
Not China, that's just made up nonsense. The US does have concentration camps along its souther border to detain the people fleeing conditions the US created with it's ultraviolence against Latin America though, and does hold Muslim prisoners without trial in a torture camp that they illegally operate on Cuban soil, for example.
Which one has been bombing or invading some country somewhere every single day for the last 40 years and which one hasn't bombed or invaded anybody over the same time period?
Which one has the largest prison population in the world despite having far fewer people? Which one has cops kill almost 1,000 people every year? Which one has 800 military bases around the world to enforce its hegemony on other countries? Which one was founded on slavery and genocide? Which one used nuclear weapons on civilians, which one maintains a nuclear first strike policy to this day? Which one has hundreds of thousands of people sleeping in the streets?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Welfare queen" absolute clown
Glad to hit nerve there, queen.
Welfare queens do not exist
But if they don't exist how can we sneer at the poors for their poverty while also simultaneously claiming that they're privileged and pampered as a dismissal of their criticisms?
Welfare queens are not as many as conservatives would like to portray it, but they do exists including the jobless champagne socialists in here.
I wish the phantasms in your mind really existed because bilking the US like that would be rad. Unfortunately, only the rich get that much money from the state for free.
Sounds authoritarian 2 me
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2021/02/china-debt-trap-diplomacy/617953/