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[–] 39 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (44 children)

he worked with these fash, they had a show together, he modeled, owned and wore their awful merch, he boosted their platform for years, while knowing hila was israeli, an idf vet at that, until their zionism was too obvious to keep ties with. Do we honestly believe that he thought an idf footsoldier and her state-assigned husband weren't zionists, or did he just ignore it while he could benefit?

also i think it's gross to give teddy fresh to the homeless and stream it, but that's just me

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  • [–] 20 points 2 days ago (18 children)

    Fuck Hasan, but this is wildly decontextualizing what Leftovers was and Ethan's record at the time. Ethan was a shitty racist freak (and Hasan either willfully ignored the depths of it or was incompetent in investigating some of what Ethan posted), but Ethan's obsession with defending Israel wasn't a thing then and Hila was framed as maybe having turned a new leaf after having been drafted to do an office job for the fascist state, and then the point of Leftovers itself was basically Hasan trying to help Ethan become a leftist, presenting him with facts and arguments and so on. During this period, lying or not, Ethan was far, far more conciliatory to more progressive positions than he is now. I think besides not duly accounting for the fact that Ethan posted some really fucked up shit in the past, the premise of the show was minimally understandable because it was, from Hasan's view, oriented toward anti-zionism and progressivism more generally.

    And seriously, fuck Hasan, he's a piece of shit who almost never, ever admits he's wrong and constantly punches left as he becomes the living embodiment of socdem brocialism, but I think the way you are characterizing this in particular is misleading at best. Let's attack him for real problems and not that he shocks his dog or did Diddy shit.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

    Ethan's obsession with defending Israel wasn't a thing then

    i specifically said their zionism got obvious recently

    Hila was framed as maybe having turned a new leaf

    that’s what i’m talking about, there’s no evidence that they weren’t zionists and her raider of ramallah story w bobby lee was published before leftovers happened (2017 vs 2021). and what do you mean leftovers was oriented towards anti zionism that’s simply false

    please explain explicitly how i’m being misleading. he did a show with a racist israeli couple on the “vibe” that they were better because ethan stopped saying the n word on camera and chose not to interrogate this miraculous transformation because… ?

    i didn’t do the dog shocking bs, i never mentioned the diddy party, i stuck specifically to the business with zionists

    also hasan knew he was a zionist. on ep 57 of leftovers, ethan brings up israel and hasan says “oh my god you don’t want to go down that rabbit hole come on now” now why is that? wouldn’t someone who boasts about how long he’s been vocally “pro palestine” want to make his coworkers stance on zionism clear on their semi-political podcast?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    please explain explicitly how i’m being misleading.

    Sure. My understanding of events is that Ethan both publicly and privately (with Hasan, based on Hasan's comments) was much more critical of Israel, even if he was never anything better than a lib zionist in terms of his positive positions. He poses as a lib zionist now but I think you and I can agree that his current attitude isn't a deluded Brad Lander-style belief in "an Israel with equal rights" (complete nonsense, just different nonsense), but instead is a pathetically "disguised" attitude of wanting to kill all Arabs. But just as importantly for evaluating Hasan's bad decision (and I agree it was a bad decision), Hasan personally evaluated Ethan as being open to his arguments for more progressive politics and the show was very much oriented toward Hasan's misbegotten attempt to educate him.

    I don't think I can really convince you that there is anything to this point other than pure hallucination and wishful thinking (and I agree some wishful thinking is involved), but we have on the show Klein weeping on camera seeing the murder of Palestinian children and imaging it in relation to his own kids (which is an extremely normal way to frame an empathetic response), so it makes sense to me if that's not a totally aberrant behavior on his part why someone might think that he was learning or could be reached.

    I will repeat that I think Hasan severely lacked due diligence in investigating other matters in Ethan's history, probably the most grotesque example being the thing with the Boston Marathon bombing survivor (which really should be disqualifying for being a public figure all on its own).

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  • [–] 11 points 2 days ago*

    he absolved ethan of everything he did because ethan’s brand was that he was no long the slur guy so in the name of “redemption” hasan chose to move forward in business. the boston bombing thing, the slurs, their time in israel, all of it was public knowledge but that was ignored. i don’t believe this narrative that hasan just didn’t know, that he didn’t research hard enough to know his business partner sucked shit, the podcast was an active attempt to rehabilitate him. i’m still not sure how it was oriented towards antizionism, why would he dodge a perfect chance for educating ethan on the differences between china/taiwan and israel/palestine if that were so? progressivism is a nonsense term, as we know. i think you’re treating hasan with kid gloves, like he just bumbled his way into this rather than being an active participant. i especially resent the implication that the facts i was stating were as fabricated as the dog story and “didn’t correspond to reality”, but i agree, i also don’t think i can convince you of my position here

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago* (14 children)

    nobody said anything about dog shocking or diddy, she made a principled anti-zionist statement. Why the derailing?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    It's called an analogy, because the "principled criticism", which I spent a whole paragraph addressing prior to that, does not correspond to the reality of the situation and we shouldn't be satisfied with false criticisms even of people who rightly should have mountains of scorn directed at them.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago* (6 children)

    It's not an "analogy" in any way lol, it's you putting words in other peoples mouth to make their arguments worse. It's bad faith.

    That's just your apologetic version of events where you absolve Hasan of all responsibility of platforming and working with zionists. You aren't the authority where you can just declare your interpretation as the "true recounting". This man was a Platner supporter and defender, as well as a defender of AOCIA. He doesn't have an issue working with zionists or social fascists until people made it an issue by criticizing him.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    It's not an "analogy" in any way lol, it's you putting words in other peoples mouth to make their arguments worse. It's bad faith.

    No, absolutely not. It is fucking ludicrous to say that I was accusing them of actually, literally doing the dog shocking story.

    You aren't the authority where you can just declare your interpretation as the "true recounting".

    This might surprise you, but people usually believe they are right when they have a belief, that's what having a belief is, but my argument, correct or incorrect, rested on referring to a timeline of events that can be independently confirmed or falsified and at no point did I say someone should believe something about the production of the misbegotten podcast because I said so.

    This man was a Platner supporter and defender, as well as a defender of AOCIA.

    I also mentioned many other criticisms! My point isn't that he's a good guy, and in fact I still criticized him for working with Ethan in my original comment. I despise him, I just don't think this line of criticism is a fair representation of events.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (3 children)

    i find your comments to be very tedious and trite and debate-bro, and always playing 'devils advocate' for the wrong side

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    spurious accusations are usually bundled together

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    the hasan defense crew hath arrived

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago* (24 children)
  • [–] 21 points 2 days ago (14 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (13 children)

    Streaming fucking sucks, i just hate this bullshit of “Oh shit you hung out with someone who visited Israel with their parents in 2009! You’re problematic and no longer welcome in our very cool very real club of Real Communists, which is composed entirely of people who never played tag as a child”.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (12 children)

    Thanks for having a sane opinion damn. You really hit the nail on the head.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 hours ago (11 children)

    No they didn't, they are being a reactionary. Hasan didn't "hang out with someone who visited Israel with their parents in 2009". He actively endorses Liberal Zionist politicians in the Democrat Party such as AOC, Platner and Mamdani. He had ongoing business relations and platforming of Israeli zionists for years and it only ended once the contradictions sharpened and the broader left started to give a shit about Palestine instead of ignoring it and telling everyone to "shut up".

    You are just part of a long line of squishy leftists with their fingers in their ears, just like the DNC in this photo. This is what you are doing when you scream at people to shut up and be normal

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  • [–] 0 points 9 hours ago (10 children)

    To call Mamdani a Zionist is an insane take. Please see the above “be normal” message, thanks.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 hours ago* (9 children)

    He just created an "anti-semitism task force" and is sending millions of dollars of city tax payer money to outright zionist propaganda organizations. He never replaced the zionist NYPD commissioner despite all previous mayors doing this (he's MORE ZIONIST than previous NYC mayors on this issue). He backed out of his performative threats to arrest Netanyahu. He sicks the NYPD on Palestine protesters and protects synagogues that are selling Palestinian land against international law. He rode into office on anti-zionism and has completely backpedaled on every single contest. He explicitly said that he supports the right of Israel to exist, which is Liberal Zionism by definiton.

    Again, your condescending Liberalism is not helping you here just making you come across as more dismissive of genocide and more arrogant. This is how genocidal apologia enters the left, via the squishy soc-dems and defending them. Every time you defend them and dismiss this stuff it moves you closer to the Israelis, it makes you a zionist.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 hours ago (8 children)

    There are things he should be held to account for and we should be pushing for him to become a better politician. Being fucking annoying online and flat out calling him a Zionist is insane. A lot of ML adjacent communities say they “critically support” (imho, terrible) regimes because they have problems but overall push the goal forward of anti imperialism. Why the fuck isn’t the same grace shown to a person?

    Continues to eat your own. Soon you’ll be by yourself and hungry.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (7 children)

    There are things he should be held to account for

    These are Liberal Zionist policies. I'm criticizing him, to "hold him to account" and you are trying to get him out of it by deflecting without argument other than "be normal" Liberal condescension. If he should be held to account, get on the fucking correct side of the line and criticize him instead of defend him.

    we should be pushing for him to become a better politician.

    We can push the democrats left!!! You have to be an actual baby who did not experience 2016 to present to believe this lie for the umpteenth time. Same shit as Bernie, AOC, Fetternman, etc. Eternal circles that you will eternally justify and defend. Even if this were true though, you are doing the opposite of "pushing Mamdani left" by standing between the left and him and trying to defend him and deflect the left's critiques. You are literally pushing him right, alongside all the forces of capital dragging him right. You are the ratchet in the the ratchet effect, preventing any leftward movement.

    Being fucking annoying online and flat out calling him a Zionist is insane

    Oh did you get annoyed that a politician was correctly labeled by the policies he enacts? So sorry for you that you had to be annoyed by being reminded this guy took material actions with his power to kill Palestinians and cover up the illegal sale of their land. It's like actions don't matter to you at all, only images and posturing. You are a dog who only responds to tone.

    Continues to eat your own. Soon you’ll be by yourself and hungry.

    Mamdani is not mine nor have I ever supported him. I do not support Democrats. I'm a communist, not a Liberal or "DeMoCrAtIC sOcIaLiSt". No politician who is part of the fascistic Democrat Party is on the side of the international proletariat. He will become more and more hated, centrist and powerless as time goes on, I will not tie my reputation to him.

    The difference between critical support for anti-imperialist nations is that they are actually opposing the US empire, and therefore the zionist coalition. With money and guns and spies they are inflicting damage to the American empire. What is Mamdani doing to weaken the American empire? What has he done to harm the zionists? Social Fascists in the core are rainbow imperialists, they actually aid the empire by giving it ideological cover and pinkwashing it without changing any of the actual power dynamics and material conflict. The AOCs and Bernies and Mamdanis of the world make America stronger, more capable of warmongering and destruction.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 hours ago (6 children)

    I didn’t read anything you typed. I don’t care. I’d say enjoy your day but I know you won’t.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 hours ago (5 children)
  • [–] 0 points 7 hours ago (4 children)
  • [–] 3 points 7 hours ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

    Wow you don’t have a character minimum everytime you speak? That’s crazy bro.

    Judging from your other shit ass opinions I’ll be happy to disregard this one too. Stay seething.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 days ago* (5 children)

    parasocial attachment is blinding you to correct critiques

    hardline anti-zionists have been eye rolled and told to shut up for decades. you just never learn

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  • [+] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 11 points 22 hours ago* (2 children)

    "This persion is a zionist and promotes Liberal Zionist politicians"

    "Shut up shut up be normal be normal SHUT UP YOU ULTRA SHITHEAD" <- every westoid reactionary piece of shit for the last 60 years

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