Mrs_deWinter comments on Far-right AfD win in Germany is ‘grave moment’ for Europe, politicians warn

[–] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

Meeting the AFD at their terms ("inhaltlich stellen") is exactly what the CDU tried, and look where that got them.

Answering facism with "well okay maybe we do have too many outsiders and queer people" doesn't solve facism, it simply creates more. And at the end of the day people still vote for the OG facists, so you lose across the board.

What we really need is to stop offering populists and facists the stage. We have to place the issues that are actually important instead of this fucking fear mongering. People don't vote AFD for their legitimate policies! People vote facists if they're uneducated, poor, and desperate. We need to offer education and realistic opportunities of economical advancement and happiness. Want to guess which party doesn't offer that at all and instead will make all three significantly worse for working people? THE FUCKING AFD.

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[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 point 9 hours ago (2 children)

Meeting the AFD at their terms (“inhaltlich stellen”) is exactly what the CDU tried, and look where that got them.

Answering facism with “well okay maybe we do have too many outsiders and queer people” doesn’t solve facism, it simply creates more. And at the end of the day people still vote for the OG facists, so you lose across the board.

Correct, it does not solve fascism. Look at what Merz said: we will continue our way. Do you really thing that after this results this is the best thing he could have said ? Did he want to gift AfD also the next elections ?

What we really need is to stop offering populists and facists the stage.

And the only way you can do this is solving the problems people have, or think to have, so that populists and fascists can no longer use these as bogeyman.

We have to place the issues that are actually important instead of this fucking fear mongering. People don’t vote AFD for their legitimate policies! People vote facists if they’re uneducated, poor, and desperate.

Insulting who do not voted for you is the best way to win back their votes... sure.

So, where are all the intelligent and educated people who do not vote CDU anymore ?
Look at the historical data. Against last time (2024) it is true that AfD gained (about 14%) but the CDU was basically halved. And looking further back there is a balance between AfD gains and CDU loses.
My bet is that a lot of people who voted CDU last time simply voted AfD (or something else anyway).

And if the statistics about who voted who are correct, you have a list of thing to do to win back the preferences and to take away AfD political weapons.

We need to offer education and realistic opportunities of economical advancement and happiness. Want to guess which party doesn’t offer that at all and instead will make all three significantly worse for working people? THE FUCKING AFD.

Maybe, but at least they talk about them. And guess what ? People vote for the party that at least talk about the problems they have.

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[–] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org 1 point 3 hours ago (1 child)

Insulting who do not voted for you is the best way to win back their votes… sure.

Nice try, but nothing what I wrote was an insult. Being uneducated, poor, or desperate is hardly one's own fault. We need to start acknowledging that so many of us are being systematically disadvantaged by capitalism, which - surprise! - steals our knowledge, money, and happiness.

And the only way you can do this is solving the problems people have, or think to have, so that populists and fascists can no longer use these as bogeyman.

We need to solve the problems they have, not the problems fascists want them to think they have. If you try to frame the AfD's policies as actual solutions to legitimate problems you're simply reproducing their propaganda. That's like if you lived in 1933 and asked your politicians to deport a few Jews just in case, because those poor NSDAP voters had a problem (or thought to have a problem) with them.

Populism needs to be called out, dump policies need to be called out, lies and propaganda need to be called out, that's the only way to handle them. Your misguided understanding won't solve anything. If you were head to a big party and decided today to "address the issues" of the AfD, which "the others choose to ignore" as you wrote, best case scenario you would become the AfD 2.0. What good would that do?

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[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 0 points 46 minutes ago

Nice try, but nothing what I wrote was an insult. Being uneducated, poor, or desperate is hardly one’s own fault. We need to start acknowledging that so many of us are being systematically disadvantaged by capitalism, which - surprise! - steals our knowledge, money, and happiness.

As I understand once translated in my nativa language it is implied. Calling someone uneducated or desperate is read as an insult in Italy.

We need to solve the problems they have, not the problems fascists want them to think they have. If you try to frame the AfD’s policies as actual solutions to legitimate problems you’re simply reproducing their propaganda.

Ok, so let we stick with real case.
Not so many days ago, a man raped a 13 old girl in a minimarket, and tried the same 40 minute earlier with another woman. He was arrested and a judge let him go just because he said he was sorry (and a couple of day after he said that he did nothing wrong).
It is obviously a problem if you cannot send your daughter to buy a snack for his brother without the risk of being assaulted.

Now, what do you think people would vote between someone who defend the man and someone who say that the man should be punished ? What could be an alternative solution to put him in jail or punished in some way ? Do you really think that saying that a party is fascist because they said "that man need to be punished or deported if illegally here" is the way to go ?

That’s like if you lived in 1933 and asked your politicians to deport a few Jews just in case, because those poor NSDAP voters had a problem (or thought to have a problem) with them.

No. That's like living today and asking my politicians to punish, and eventually deport who are here illegally, the people who are committing crimes. I don't care if they are jews, italians or whatever. You break the law you are punished. Simple as that.

Populism needs to be called out, dump policies need to be called out, lies and propaganda need to be called out, that’s the only way to handle them. Your misguided understanding won’t solve anything.

Yes, I agree. But if you only call it out you don't solve anything. And since populism in the end have its roots in real problems, you don't solve the real problem.

If you were head to a big party and decided today to “address the issues” of the AfD, which “the others choose to ignore” as you wrote, best case scenario you would become the AfD 2.0.

No, I don't think it necessary would end up like a AfD 2.0 unless you think that if someone apply the laws he is fascist.
It could, I agree, but it is not the obvious end.

What good would that do?

A better country for every honest person, for example.

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[–] LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The problem is one step higher, the solution being offered is the shitty take.

People hate capitalism, they struggle with real in person connections, hate their jobs, are underpaid, and struggle with basic cost of living expenses. AfD blames immigrants. The solution isn't to ALSO blame immigrants, the solution is to solve the underlying problems.

It's a very difficult list of societal problems that specific people are claiming can be solved with one neat final solution, when in reality it just causes more problems and centralized power.

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